Mats Lewan's Cold Fusion Podcast

I would be fascinated to see a single scrap of evidence that Rossi has started a factory (note: saying somebody whispered it in my ear is not evidence.)

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

What I see here is that the critics are prepared to accept flimsy evidence that it doesn't work, with certainty, but are reluctant to even consider flimsy evidence that it does.

In at least one instance this is not true. I regard the video that Steven Krivit took during his site 2011 visit to Rossi's lab as containing persuasive evidence that the ecat on that day was not doing what Rossi claimed.

What do you make of that evidence? Do you dismiss it as flimsy?

Quote from Bruce__H

In at least one instance this is not true. I regard the video that Steven Krivit took during his site 2011 visit to Rossi's lab as containing persuasive evidence that the ecat on that day was not doing what Rossi claimed.

What do you make of that evidence? Do you dismiss it as flimsy?

Yes. Adrian. I pointed out that you have a habit here of ignoring or dismissing evidence contrary to your preferred idea that Rossi's claims are for real.

It might help you to fact check some of the negative evidence. It is quite striking, and Bruce mentions one of the early but nevertheless telling elements (below). Was Rossi totally incompetent, or lying? Or, if you have another explanation, I'd like to hear it. If you consider this evidence not significant then may I point out that would be an example of what I and others here believe lies at the root of your flawed views about this issue. An unwillingness to make erroneous and premature judgement should not blind one to the evidence informing any judgement.

2012 video showing Rossi's explanation of lack of expected E-Cat output steam during test. For context: Rossi had calculated, and claimed, that this represents 7kg/hour of steam and a heat loss commensurate with that weight of dry steam.

Quote from interested observer

I would be fascinated to see a single scrap of evidence that Rossi has started a factory (note: saying somebody whispered it in my ear is not evidence.)

IO - I differ from some here in thinking that there probably will be some grain of truth in this story. Rossi operates through misdirection and misrepresentation. He has $10m or so from past successes with IH - the IH and Court involvement was a massive financial success for him - and it does not cost much to rent a space somewhere (or borrow it) and claim it is a factory. Rossi sometimes believes his own lies, and clearly is a workaholic. Although attending to faithful fans on JONP is a primary job for him, he can do this with conviction because he also plays inventor. For example, in Doral, I'll bet he was playing with that (tiny amount) of platinum sponge. And that play morphs in his mind (or at least his statements) into Johnson Matthey using 1MW of steam to generate platinum sponge.

As we've seen here Rossi does not worry too much about negative publicity from the court case. Believers shrug off old negative evidence, like the Krivit video, and as long as there is a good story (plucky inventor may save the world - bad capitalists and scientific establishment persecute him) he can continue to operate.

I don't think Mats has been badly wrong. Has has always included statements that it was not yet proven.

Adrian. The issue here with Mats is that his position does not change (as it should) in response to new evidence. Thus he remains a staunch Rossi supporter with no change in view after the Doral debacle, and then the QX test debacle (first ever test from Rossi where he does not even pretend to measure input power). Rossi has obviously (and I think correctly) decided that swaying people through technical evidence is a mugs game and not from his point of view worth it. Correct because he has run out of new ways to mismeasure input or output power, and his audience - even the believers - become too wise to allow that simply. I'm not saying he might not still do it, just that he'd see the pitfalls and reckons no measurement a wiser course.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

I too doubt the E-Cat was working properly, if at all, in Krivit's video.

But then what was going on that day?

There is an obvious and unmistakable difference between 7 kg/h steam coming out of a hose such as the one Rossi holds up and the steam output seen in the video. The difference is not subtle ... it is stark. Steam emerging at 7 kg/h would be noisy and would have rushed out not in wisps (as seen in the video) but in a torrent that would be dangerous to anyone within 5 feet of it. If, at some point in the past, the ecat had been "working properly" and producing 7 kg/h, then Rossi must know what it looks like and how different it is from what he is showing Krivit. Same goes for Levi who is standing right there. If he had previously seen the ecat "working properly" and therefore experienced what 7 kg/h really looks like do you think he would put up with claiming that the ecat that day was putting out that volume of steam?

I note that according to Rossi's information on the rate of electrical energy input to the device that day, the steam we do see coming from the hose is consistent with purely resistive heating. To save Levi, at least, from charges of dishonesty I submit that the gentle current of steam emanating from the hose in the Krivit video is the same as he (Levi) had always seen coming from it and that he had mistakenly accepted as 7 kg/h.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

There is a back story to this you may not be aware of.

I would be interested to know what this back story is.

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

I too doubt the E-Cat was working properly, if at all, in Krivit's video. There is a back story to this you may not be aware of.

On the other hand consider what Frank Acland wrote here:

http://e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/

Yes, I've considered that link.

Don't you think it extraordinary that Frank has left up such an known misleading set of statements?

We could go through it point by point if you like.

@THH: "A factory is an industrial site, usually consisting of buildings and machinery, or more commonly a complex having several buildings, where workers manufacture goods or operate machines processing one product into another."

I would be quite astonished to see evidence of something that actually fits this description with anything Rossi is doing or has ever done. To describe the Doral setup in these terms, for example, would constitute a grain of truth embedded in a mountain of bullpuckey.

Quote from interested observer

To describe the Doral setup in these terms, for example, would constitute a grain of truth embedded in a mountain of bullpuckey.

Remind you of anyone?

Several people. If you subtract the grain of truth.

Quote from interested observer

Apparently, being relentlessly positive in the face of overwhelming negative evidence is called being open-minded. An interesting definition.

That is “Standard Operating Adrian”