The LENR Induced Fission Thread

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    You missed a basic physics class -0.1.. means exotermic....= produces energy...

    Do the balance. He4 is lighter than the sum of He3 and a neutron. Mass = energy, so if He4 were to lose a neutron to create He3 then the mass defect requires the addition of the energy equal to 0.1 mass units.

    energy changes in nuclear reactions - Google Search


    I don't suppose you will admit to an error? It is not my intent to embarrass you. I wish luck with your theories. If I must be your strawman, please get the math right. I know I make errors, but this is not one of them.

    But if you do the mass defect equation for deuteron-deuteron fusion to He4 you get:


    2.01356 + 2.01346 - 4.00261 = .02451


    Which means the reaction is endothermic, as it is. You can't have it both ways. Straighten it out.

    .Google dueteron-deuteron fusion to find out what conventional wisdom says happens on the sun to produce He3. The reaction doesn't stop at He4. And if the He4 needs to grab some extra energy to set free the neutron how does it then produce a high energy neutron? That reaction can produce tritium or He3, but very few photons, which fact is significant. One overlooked fact of Papp's engine is that it produced very little heat. That is consistent with the reaction of He4 to He3. Just because the reaction doesn't occur spontaneously doesn't mean you can't excite to happen if it is exothermic.

    Check your math. The mass defect is on the He4 side of the balance of products and reactants, so the reaction would be exothermic.


    You might consider making neutrons like per this patent.

    US20040017874A1 - Modulated quantum neutron fusion - Google Patents

    Edited once, last by Drgenek ().

    Quote from Drgenek

    Do the balance. He4 is lighter than the sum of He3 and a neutron. Mass = energy, so if He4 were to lose a neutron to create He3 then the mass defect requires the addition of the energy equal to 0.1 mass units.

    energy changes in nuclear reactions - Google Search


    I don't suppose you will admit to an error? It is not my intent to embarrass you. I wish luck with your theories. If I must be your strawman, please get the math right. I know I make errors, but this is not one of them.

    Yes, it's why He3 is a strong neutron catcher (one of the best) It is worrying inside warheads, because T decays in He3, and ditritium, like dihydrogen, move everywhere, incuding in the primer. The study of helium-3 in regolith and its origin still raises many questions and mysteries. Space exploration and scientific research continue to deepen our understanding of these phenomena. The study of the Moon and the lunar regolith has provided valuable information about the composition of our solar system and the processes taking place in it.

    The dantesque MHD phenomena taking place on the surface of the sun may be producing deuterium fusions, who knows? (with H3 production)

    Research in the field of astrophysics and cosmology is constantly evolving, and new discoveries are regularly made. These discoveries may challenge our existing knowledge and open up new avenues for research. Like LENRs, the origin of helium-3 is an example of a topic that requires continued investigation to further our understanding of its origin, distribution, and potential role in the future.

    Space exploration, manned and unmanned missions and studies conducted on Earth allow us to push the frontiers of knowledge and discover fascinating new information about the universe around us. Unsolved mysteries and unanswered questions are what motivate engineers to pursue their research and continue to explore the wonders of space.

    Quote from fabrice DAVID

    Like LENRs, the origin of helium-3 is an example of a topic that requires continued investigation to further our understanding of its origin, distribution, and potential role in the future.

    David, I mentioned it before. 3-He is produced by the 12 H* ---> 12C cycle where a cluster of H* collapses to carbon that according to known tables then produces (decays into) 4-He,3-He,2H,p,n. You have to study Holmlids work. Of course 12-C just lives for pico seconds....

    When I started this thread I knew deuterium - deuterium fusion was exothermic, but got confused by the negative mass concept, which was kind of silly as it is only a reflection of the strong force reducing the energy of an atom to a minimal value. But it doesn't quite work for He4, as He4 does not normally lose energy by electromagnetic means, but rather by nuclear ones. That means He4 can act as an energy bucket accumulating energy by a succession of shocks. This is indicated by the sound that was reported by witnesses before the two explosions and by Bob Rohner's experience with his engine when applying successive sparks.

    On the sun sufficient energy is available, but for Papp's engine to work a means to pump up the energy must be available. This is how I think it worked:


    When the engine had reached its proper operating condition, the spark would cause some number of He4 atoms to release a neutron. The neutrons would actually have low energy and would wander away. Why would they wander away? Well, both forms of helium have energy wells associated with them. For a particular atom the wells probably did not line up as the He3 atom is probably smaller. An atom transitioning from He4 to He3 would have the right side of the well move to the left. When a neutron is released such a transition occurs spontaneously. The newly created He3 releases it's excess energy and contributes to the detonation and power output of the engine. The neutrons hopefully hang around until they decay to a proton and electron. The neutron decay plus other heat sources maintain the proper operating temperature.

    It would appear that starting the engine could be a tough task.

    I had an email from a former Rohner investor today. He said ' We shareholders did get a settlement, puny dontchaknow, and he was probably subjected to some kind of house arrest. I don't even know if I'm curious anymore only certain that I've met at least one total charlatan in my life."

    Quote from GRMattson

    When the engine had reached its proper operating condition, the spark would cause some number of He4 atoms to release a neutron. The neutrons would actually have low energy and would wander away.

    The alpha particle is very stable and will not give up any particles (n,p) unless you add tons of energy.


    But you can add alpha particles to most other nuclei and transmute them. This stops at the Lanthanides where it becomes endothermic.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    I had an email from a former Rohner investor today. He said ' We shareholders did get a settlement, puny dontchaknow, and he was probably subjected to some kind of house arrest. I don't even know if I'm curious anymore only certain that I've met at least one total charlatan in my life."

    John Rohner not Bob Rohner. Two very different stories.

    Wyttenbach


    I don't know what you mean by tons of energy. The theory says 28.4MEV and you can rip it apart. The real resistance to getting involved is probably due to the fact that it doesn't lose energy by emitting a photon, and that could go the other way too. But there must be some way to get energy into it. A series of sparks might be the answer.

    I gave up on a fusion reaction occuring when I realized that the difficulty of getting three alpha particles together is what gives stars their long times on the main sequence.

    This reaction, which I will from now on call "the reaction" is believed to occur in the sun. Engineers love to find a back door. Well, I propose this as the back door reaction.

    Dennis Bushnell 's technology future ..update for 2023

    No nuclear here,

    except JAPANESE LENR..

    NASA paid for this report?

    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20230005204/downloads/NASA-TM-20230005204.pdf

    "Japanese LENR – The Japanese have apparently determined how to scale LENR, low energy nuclear reactions, creating weak nuclear force reactions, not cold Fusion, at some 10,000 times chemical energy density. This has no radiation, is a long lasting heat battery, and there are many ways to ever more efficiently convert the heat to electricity. The associated costs are low and size/weight is small. The scaling cited by a Japanese firm is in the range which would essentially and inexpensively “solve climate” and reduce energy costs, increase operational range.


    Fire 2018 :) for reference

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    TM 7.19 "therefore the nukes although they're not fossil carbon

    they're also too expensive and so we had a hundred eight nukes we're down in 98

    nukes and dropping ;

    the coal plants are closing

    PV is selling in the major markets now

    • New
    Quote from GRMattson

    Wyttenbach


    I don't know what you mean by tons of energy. The theory says 28.4MEV and you can rip it apart. The real resistance to getting involved is probably due to the fact that it doesn't lose energy by emitting a photon, and that could go the other way too. But there must be some way to get energy into it. A series of sparks might be the answer.

    I gave up on a fusion reaction occuring when I realized that the difficulty of getting three alpha particles together is what gives stars their long times on the main sequence.

    This reaction, which I will from now on call "the reaction" is believed to occur in the sun. Engineers love to find a back door. Well, I propose this as the back door reaction.

    The total energy provided by a spark in an engine typically varies from .06 to .1 joules. That certainly has the potential to destroy a lot of He4 nuclei. The energy from the spark, of course, will wary. But this thread is about He4 being transmuted to He3 , not being totally destroyed. A way of causing that is through nuclear tunneling. Either a proton or a neutron could tunnel out of the He4 nucleous. The particle does not lose energy and, since the probability of tunneling increases exponentially with the particle's energy a relatively low energy is needed.

    • New
    Quote from GRMattson
    Joseph Papp claimed his engine could produce 100 horsepower. How many reactions per second does that require?


    IMO Papp's engine runs as overunity device rather than LENR device. Other than that, cold fusion catalysis with scalar waves should work similarly to fission and I consider seriously, that climatic changes induced with dark matter may involve heat from fission. We have many examples of nuclear reactions accelerated with neutrinos, inverse beta decay in particular. In this regard it may be significant the claim that Papp's engine did contain chlorine and plasma's are rich of scalar waves.

    • New
    Quote from Wyttenbach

    If for you 21MeV (for n) is low...............

    You are mistaken. There is a theory for natural emission of alpha particles that has had some success. Energies of 8Mev or 10Mev are required. The whole point of tunneling is that it sneaks around normal energy requirements. Find out what others are thinking. You're not the only mind on the planet

    • New
    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    IMO Papp's engine runs as overunity device rather than LENR device. Other than that, cold fusion catalysis with scalar waves should work similarly to fission and I consider seriously, that climatic changes induced with dark matter may involve heat from fission. We have many examples of nuclear reactions accelerated with neutrinos, inverse beta decay in particular. In this regard it may be significant the claim that Papp's engine did contain chlorine and plasma's are rich of scalar waves.

    13 as I remember. Note that nuclear reactions occur extremely fast, so there's no problem in that regard. Let's not get ahead of the discussion. This forced fission makes more sense than you think.

    • New

    Let me introduce you to an old friend called 'The Strong Force'. This is a made up force that imposes a potential energy that keeps the nucleous together. If you go on the Internet you will get the impression that it has no limit. Well, I'm going to impose a limit on it, or more specifically a theory that limits its effect. To wit, "The Potential Energy imposed by the Strong Force always has the same value".

    Simple! So what does it mean?. The potential energy goes first to holding the nucleons together, with the remainder to the binding energy.

    Consider He4 and He3. There is a great difference between their binding energies. Why? Well, He3 has one less nucleon, so we expect it to be smaller. More energy must then be expended to hold them together, particularly the protons. So, that's reasonable.

    Here's something interesting. When He4 changes to He3 the change in potential energy is zero. Cool. Also, the energy of the neutron when it tunnels out of the He4 is also zero. So, other than the energy from the spark no energy is necessary to drive the reaction. It is fundamentally a probability driven reaction.

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