Posts by Bob#2

Quote from oldguy

I got me some of that horse ivermctin….

now the question is, Does anyone have any ideas as to what dose and rate to use it for prevention?

A first hand report of Covid 19...

Some time ago, I posted that it was certain that I would contract Covid due to the fact that I could not 100% quarantine myself away from all contact with the world. I have a life to live, a business to run (that effects others lives/ incomes as well) and live in a highly infected state. (One of the highest, even though this state's leadership supposedly "follows science"....)

My wife and I both contracted Covid19 3 weeks ago. I was not at all surprised. Those here who think it legitimately possible to not contract the virus is only fooling themselves. Unless you stop 100% contact from the public, you will eventually get this virus at some point. Avoiding 100% contact is not realistic for most individuals.

I wear a mask at all times in public. (Illinois has had this requirement since 1st quarter last year, yet cases are exploding) I try to maintain social distancing. I avoid unnecessary instances of large group contact when I can. (Illinois has had these requirements since 1st quarter last year yet cases are exploding.)

I started taking Zinc, Vitamin D and Quercetin in June of last year. I have followed "Safe" practices as much as reasonably possible. Again, those who state one can completely isolate themselves do not live in the world I live in and are posting hyperbole. Those who think government dictates about distance, masks and lockdowns will keep you from getting Covid are delusional. (I am not stating some of these measures should not be done, but priorities are misplaced... see following statements)

I am 61 years old, have moderate high blood pressure, am pre-diabetic (take no medicine but A1C = 6) and considered overweight (240 lbs at 6'1"), have had sections of large intestine removed twice for colon cancer.

Other than that, pretty healthy. Am physically active. Yet would be considered a "high risk" for Covid.

My symptoms started as a slight temperature (99) on a Monday evening. Tuesday I developed a slight cough that felt deep in my chest. Not a bad cough, just odd that it started deeper when normally it would feel higher up. Tuesday night my wife developed a low grade temp as well and a slight cough the following day (Tuesday evening) Wednesday, we both continued a low temperature. My cough had subsided, but hers not.

We decided to get tested. It cost money to get tested in Illinois. (Yes, in one of the most liberal, Democratic states in the country. All my relatives living in other states such as MO, WI and GA reported accessible, free testing) This state has only a few "free" clinics and most are in Chicago, several hours drive for me. Various inquires to various medical organizations revealed it would could between $200 and $300 for a test. (Had to have a doctors referral(office visit cost plus cost of test) The county health department would do it for $50 but I could not get an appointment until 4 days out. (If anyone states that tests are free in Illinois, I will call them out as I live here and have done it.) I finally found that HyVee Grocery/pharmacy stores gave free tests without a doctor's referral. A few other corporations such as Walgreens do as well, but not in my area. (Yes, an evil corporation giving free tests to the general public. Damn that capitalistic system anyway!)

Anyway, the tests came back in 3 days. I tested positive and my wife negative. However, it was absolutely, 100% certain that she had it as well. False negatives are as high as 30% according to certain sources. By this time all my symptoms had passed (thankfully) with the exception of feeling a bit weak. My wife still had a fluctuating, low grade temperature (<99) and some body aches along with feeling a bit weak. On the 9th day, she would wind up losing her smell and taste.

Other than the above, we were fine. I do suspect that our "mild" case was influenced greatly by our taking the D, Zinc and Quercetin. However, I have no proof.

By day 9, we both were still experiencing the weakness and my wife the loss of senses. I decided to take Ivermectin at this point. Of course, human variety was not available to me, as doctors would not prescribe it. It was officially listed as "do not use" on the FDA and other lists. This based on calling my general doctor and talking to the pharmacist. The pharmacist stated they could not fill a prescription anyway, if it listed Covid as the diagnosis. So those who post that there is no suppression, do not live in the real world......

I was able to obtain the horse version of Ivermectin locally and the farm store for $4.99. Enough to treat 1250 pound horse. There was a sign posted on the shelf "Ivermectin for Covid treatment is unfounded and prohibited". However, no questions were asked when I purchased it. After doing some online research, I decided to take the substance and used a relative light dose, partially based on information I read on this site.

20 mg per 100 KG of body weight.

I took this dose for two days. Within 48 hours, my weakness had subsided and I felt back to normal. I had no side effects. Yes, this is observatory and not proven, but again, I am glad I did it.

My wife then took the same and now feels back to normal as well. It did take about 4 days for her senses to start returning. Even after 14 days, smell and taste are still off somewhat. She took only the two doses....would continued treatment return smell and taste faster.... who knows?

So our story ends well so far. I have been MUCH more ill with standard flu. I had almost no symptoms with this bout of Covid. Slight temp and slight cough for 1 day. My wife a bit longer. The "weakness" did last longer than standard flu bouts i have had. While not debilitating, I would say the weakness lasted for at least 10 days until I took the Ivermectin. If I had taken Ivermectin on day one..... who knows?

So my final point is.... mask and social distancing are not invalid and should be followed... they can help lower initial viral load. Lockdowns are useless and do more damage than good... IF the government would concentrate on pre-emptive treatment with Vitamin D, Zinc, Quercetin and likely other important and necessary vitamins/minerals and use of Ivermectin. I strongly suspect Ivermectin works as many reports indicate it does and state this from personal experience. I had a very noticeable improvement after taking it. I wish I had done so days earlier, but hesitated because I normally would never take "animal" versions of a medicine and the human version was being suppressed by unfounded "science" of political pressure.

Will I now be immune?.... Who knows? Will I continue taking D, Zn and Quercetin? ABSOLUTELY... there is ZERO reason to stop taking it. Will I keep my "horse Ivermectin" on hand, just in case? ABSOLUTELY! Until I can get prescribed human version. AND I will take it immediately, if I should test positive again in the future. (yes, I will continue to wear masks etc. as well)

I wanted to pass my experience along in case someone is interested.

Other than that, I have pretty much abandoned this forum. The LENR content quality has lowered extensively and the the recent, biased and one sided censorship of FM1 and BruceH, while certain other members can post insult and political crap with immunity has simply turned me off. Sadly, the "Cancel culture" is creeping in it seems. Unfortunate.

Quote from JedRothwell

Okay, I just looked, and I do not find a single instance of that. Maybe you need to sharpen your Google skills. What I find is:

Articles listing bleach as a typical disinfectant.

Public health officials all over the U.S. issuing warnings not to ingest disinfectants. Such messages were added to public health websites after the president said what he said.

A spike in people ingesting disinfectants, reported by health agencies and poison control centers. There are no stories that someone died, but several people were hurt.

So you have totally distorted what the media said. You made that stuff up. Then you criticize the media for saying what you imagine it said.

Nope. I never said that. He suggested you should inject disinfectants which is EVEN MORE DANGEROUS than drinking bleach.

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What? Are you willfully deceptive? Below is a screen print. At Google, I typed "Trump Bleach" and the below is the ACTUAL results. I can only do one page screen prints but the list goes on and on. This is truly acrimonious on your part!

Quote from THHuxleynew

Bob - I disagree with you about the media. Stronglyy. And I have seen no facts here to back up your accusation - so I suspect you cannot justify it. Try if you want.

I certainly can give facts to back up the accusation, but will not post more on this thread per Allan's proper request.

Although, it will be pointless........

This argument cannot be won by facts, just as the above shows! The transcript CLEARLY and FACTUALLY shows what Trump stated one time and yet if you simply do a search, you fill find dozens of media reports (CNN, MSN, CBS, etc. etc) stating that Trump said to drink bleach and that people all over the world are dying because of it..... do it... enter Trump and bleach. Remember, he made the above ONE TIME question about disinfectants and NEVER mentioned bleach NOR stated anyone should drink anything AND that doctors should be in charge. And yet Jed (and you at least once) have posted here that Trump said to drink bleach. As Jed so often states "you made that up!"

However, you and Jed are mind readers and know that what was factually said should not be taken as such but MUST be twisted into something else. Simply because it must be!

This is my last word on the subject... Trump never told anyone to drink bleach... never told anyone to drink anything. The media bias simply promoted lies. Period. The facts are clear and do not require mind readers! I am not making statement about Climate change, masks or anything else, only If someone posts that Trump said to drink bleach, they are either ignorant or willfully lying! Fact.

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

I kind of hope I'm around long enough to see this unfold.

It is likely the following scenario will happen as it has with other spurious claims.

Rossi will simply shut down his JONP or possibly leave it up with no further postings / activity.

Frank will keep ECW open for a short while as it is an income producer for him. However, with no activity on JONP, it will quickly die as there will be no "new" (simple repeated info) from Rossi. He will shut it down within a few months. I would expect he would attempt to contact Rossi, but Rossi will simply not answer him. I doubt that Frank has any means other than email to contact Rossi.

For the few months that Frank keeps ECW running, yes, there will be all the conspiracy theories posted in abundance. Big oil bought Rossi out. The energy mafia had him snuffed. Aliens kidnapped him as they were desperate for an inexhaustible energy supply and the eCat was the ONLY reactor in the universe "proven" to work! (It was certified too!)

But then most users would drop out and then Frank would close shop. Once ECW is down, Rossi is history. Pretty much like Papp. His name would come up from time to time in legend lore, but nothing ever will emerge.

Not that Rossi had anything anyway....... oh... sorry.... he DID have $10 Million Dollars did'nt he! In terms of money, Rossi was far more successful than most scammers are! Perhaps he will go down in history as one of the most successful scammers in history! What a legacy!

Quote from JedRothwell

He suggested injecting disinfectants, which would be even more dangerous than drinking bleach. He was not joking. He was talking to one of his top medical experts. The video and his exact words are here:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177

Quote:

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."

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Yes, he turned and ASKED THE QUESTION. He did not state for anyone to start drinking bleach, the word bleach is not in this at all. He did not state that anyone should drink disinfectants, that is not in the video. As you so often post "You made that up".

He did not suggest to anyone to inject disinfectants... he asked if it could be developed..... as "it'd be interesting to check that". That is categorically NOT telling people to inject disinfectants.

Only a moron would take that sentence to mean that.... or someone who simply wants to intentionally spin political rhetoric. Which is it?

So here is the ENTIRE transcript, not cherry picked as one should read context.

" And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me."

So he specifically said "can we do something like that" (a question) , "it would be interesting (simply an observational opinion)" AND "your going to have to use medical doctors with" (a completely proper disclaimer). How interesting THAT part is conveniently always left out of these political based quotes! But that would not fit the narrative would it!

And yes, there are oral disinfectants ....

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.co…bs/10.1002/anie.201208889

Not that it is likely one for Covid would be developed, they are not unheard of.

I have not seen one post from you decrying the medial for twisting and blowing these comments completely out of proportion or context.

Who is more at fault... one person who makes a misinterpreted statement one time, or the media who prints over and over and over again in inaccurate, down right blatantly and willful, politically motivated malfeasance.

You want to diss Trump but give the lying media a free pass! Typical political propaganda.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Why words from leaders matter.

Quote from THHuxleynew

when nowadays many things weakly disavowed by Trump are viewed by his supporters

Quote from THHuxleynew

Several deaths of people drinking bleach marketed as a “miracle cure” have been reported across South America, including in Argentina where a five-year-old boy was reported to have died

Really?

It is this kind of political "reporting" that is spreading misinformation!

#1. Trump has NEVER stated to drink bleach. Please provide source if so.

#2. Trump has never told anyone to drink anthing! Please provide source if so.

#3. It was the liberal MEDIA that kept stating over and over that Trump said to drink bleach.... who fault is that? Trumps? NO! Where is your posts slamming media lies?

#4. You provide a article from the Guardian, (yes, a well respected journal that you would accept OTHER facts from?) stating that someone in a different country than Trump followed HIS advice? That Argentina has Trump supporters?

#5. Why is Trump responsible for what the media LIES about? I read things that uber conservative channels say Biden said. Do you think Biden should address each and every mis-information about him? That Biden is responsible for lies that conservative rags print? Of course you do not! Why then Trump? He would be doing nothing be dispelling garbage reports from the biased liberal media!

#6. You really hold Trump accountable for what someone in Argentina did?

#7. You give the liberal media an absolute FREE PASS on lying and misinformation? I have not seen any posts from you decrying their abhorrent reporting? Perhaps it is OK to lie about Trump because Trump is bad?

Perhaps I should start posting all the verbal blunders that Biden makes here as you state it is so important what leaders say?

Perhaps you should state that it is important for MEDIA to quit lying and report only facts!

Quote from THHuxleynew

Positive benefits of Vit D other than COVID have been shown to be pretty limited

?? Sometimes it is statements like this that cause such an adverse reaction. Perhaps I have misunderstood?

You make it sound as if Vit. D is of barely any importance!

Yet some countries have mandated laws that it MUST be added to milk, such as Canada and Sweden. In the US all consumer milk has vitamin D added.... millions of gallons! Is this because it is not of much importance or of limited value? Just the opposite and it is common knowledge!

Per Mayo clinic https://www.mayoclinic.org/dru…ts-vitamin-d/art-20363792

Vitamin D is essential to Bone growth and bone maintenance. Rickets is caused without it, or more likely at least.

They also state research that indicates Vitamin D in Cancer prevention and Cognitive health among others.

It is important to the immune system and other critical systems.

Vitamin D is indeed extremely beneficial, not limited, actually essential and I would think this commonly known and understood. So my thoughts about your statement of how some here perceive your posts are somewhat highlighted by such as this. How or why would you diminish a proposed subject such as Vitamin D value / benefit to support your stance? And exactly what IS that stance.... no existing drug can possibly be of benefit against Covid?

Perhaps I have misunderstood your comment, but it seems that I made a post clearly stating that Vitamin D had "other" benefits so that it was a "Valid" reason to take it with the hope that it also impacted Covid and your response seemed to try to minimalize that stance by stating that Vitamin D "really has little value" as worded by the "benefits shown to be limited"

That is a bit specious, because the "amount" of benefit was not part of the point nor even part of the question. It was stated that there was benefit and no risk. And in actuality, there is significant benefit in Vitamin D. So the question is WHY do you diminish it's use or suggested use. It is completely illogical!

Your statement above is equivalent to me stating... well, keeping 6 feet is "OK" but it is really of little benefit and do not expect it to really help! I.E. No need to really pay attention to the 6 foot rule. Therefore, main stream media and the medical profession should NOT be pushing / promoting the 6 foot distance rule! And that I make similar posts to EVERY marginal Covid policy! This would be kind of the "mirror" or reverse approach that I think many here see you take!

Some people here do not understand why you do not counter many of the marginal benefit "standard practices" but are quick to jump on the "it will not help" band wagon with any proposed compound that is not being developed by main stream pharma or has a formal RCT! A compound not having an RCT does not mean it does not work. We do not see you dissing Remdesivir here!

Just some thoughts! No accusation intended.

Quote from Dr Richard

....see what happens next anyway......

!!!! The same that has happened for EVERY OTHER version of the eCat!

original eCat

Gas Cat

Hot Cat

1 MW plant with 30 small cats

1 MW plant with "Big Frankie" Cats

Quark Cat

Quark X Cat

SK Cat

SKL Cat

All with satisfied customers, "certifications" , tested by customer and 3rd party and high COP.

The only thing missing.... they do not exist! No sales, no customer, no real industrial certifications, no independent tests and no evidence the next version will be any different.

What do you place your expectations on?

Quote from Bob#2

on unproven, high risk and costly vaccines

I should correct my post.... I cannot say high risk as no vaccine yet exists and we do not know what the risks might be... if any.

They could be safe... they could be high risk.. I do not know and should not have stated it that way.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Look who owns the media!

Look who pays the media (via ads..)

Look who makes money with sick people and almost no money with V-D, Zinc, HCQ,DOCY,ACRITRO etc... (F+R)

This is indeed an absolute debacle!

While it is not yet proven vitamin D has a huge positive impact on Covid, it is certain that it has no risk nor ill side effects. (Again, taken in reasonable amounts as any reasonable person would do)

While the media and major medical establishment push masks to no end, which is good as they also have a positive impact, although by no means comprehensive, they also have no major down side, The media and medical establishment is not pushing Vitamin D. which has the same characteristics..

While the media and major medical establishment push hand washing to no end, which is good as this also has a positive impact, although by no means comprehensive, it also has no major down side, the media and medical establishment is not pushing Vitamin D. which has the same characteristics..

While the media and major medical establishment push the "magical 6 foot" distancing to no end, which is OK but truly unscientific and by no means comprehensive, the media and medical establishment is not pushing Vitamin D. which has BETTER characteristics....

While the media and major medical establishment push not touching your eyes, mouth or face to no end, which is OK as this also has a positive impact, although by no means comprehensive, yet almost impossible to do on a regular basis, , The media and medical establishment is not pushing Vitamin D. which has the likely better characteristics..

There is no reason for Vit. D not being encouraged. It has many positive benefits even aside from Covid. IF it turns out that it does have a major positive impact on Covid, look how many lives could have been possibly saved or improved simply by encouraging a readily available and inexpensive, natural compound! Yet, no, even some here "Argue" against it simply because no RCT has been done. That is illogical... No risk, observed positive impact, other benefits beside Covid.... and a possibly strong aide against Covid... Certainly more than the "magical 6 foot" distancing order! People want to disparage Trump on his response even though Biden would not have done anything realistically different, the media and medical establishment has done worse with the handling of things such as Vitamin D and other treatments. (Nursing homes, ventilators.... ) Where is the outcry?

Yes, it certainly appears that the media and major medical establishment only are pushing those things that will not compete with new drugs.

It is getting past frustration to the point of concern of ill intent that so many possible medical aides with no risk are not only be unreported, but actually campaigned against! This is the reason conspiracy theories start! Perhaps with good reason!

It does not make logical sense that if front line medical personnel are reporting possible agents that have a positive impact, that these agents have little to no risk, available and low cost, that the media and major medical establishment should not openly and "earnestly" investigate them! These compound DO NOT EXCLUDE "standard care" or other medicines. (As there are none yet) Truthfully consider..... major med is spending millions if not billions on unproven, high risk and costly vaccines immediately while ignoring existing products that are being reported as effective. What more do you need to question motives here?

As an engineer, if I was building a structure that needed a material with certain characteristics such as "X" strength, "y" pliability, etc. would I try to invent it from scratch if there were other materials REPORTED to work? Would I immediately ignore those materials and spend billions on attempting development on a new material? (A Rossi meme!) Or would I seriously explore the existing report materials BEFORE spending millions / billions? I think the answer is obvious!

The main difference here is that in the medical field, the establishments that are the sole providers of APPROVED "materials" are also the ones that seemingly control what is reported as working! Quite the conflict of interest!

I do not believe one can provide a logical and fact based reasoning on why Vitamin D should not be (or have been for many months) been pushed as openly and aggressively as the "magical 6 foot" distancing meme! Remember, it would not be exchanging or excluding ANY existing practice, those can continue, but simply be another tool against Covid

Wait.... no RCT? Show me the RCT on 6 foot distancing.......

It seems that we are being told that the ONLY remedy MUST come from a new developed compound and that no existing compounds can work.... period.

It may be the case,... but it looks like we will never know... the decision has already been made....

Quote from THHuxleynew

Even so US refuseniks need to face and mend the failures of their own system rather than compare it with one completely different.

The people of the US have the opportunity to change every election cycle. Do you think the Chinese have that luxury? Or even if they can choose anything themselves? I do not believe it is the regime that is the core problem, it is the inherent system.

That is the wonders of a plurality.... but then it is a growing trend among elitist thinking that the populace is too dumb or uneducated to make "scientific" decisions themselves, so the elitist should simply be in charge and make those decisions for them! Then you wind up with a Russia or China...... or worse....

"China does better overall"...... I do not see much immigration to China but MUCH to the US from China... wonder why?

You might ask the people in Hong Kong what they think!

Quote from JedRothwell

Why do you doubt it? On what basis? Did you read that somewhere?

Really? It is indeed amazing how some think China really is with it's own people, even with over whelming evidence of continual human rights violations.

So for what good it will do, you think that China's communist government does not commit oppressive actions or involuntary requirements against it's own people, especially the racist oppression of certain ethnic groups?

It is fact that they do and that is why I doubt the vaccine of "hundreds of thousands" was likely voluntary. It likely was not even explained to them in many cases what the vaccine was.... simply... take this or "else implied". Not questioning the government out of fear is not the same as being "patriotic"!

Such as :

Yes they have forced medicine as noted :

https://time.com/5885020/china-xinjiang-forced-medication/

Forced organ harvesting... if they force you to give up your guts, you do not think they would force you to take a vaccine?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w…%20the%20statement%20said.

Forced labor : If they make slaves of you, you do not think they would test vaccines on you?

https://www.businessinsider.co…ced-labor-xinjiang-2020-9

https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/chinas-forced-labor-problem/

and the list goes on.

The fact that you have to ask why I doubt that the vaccines could be / were involuntary in principal shows that you are either uneducated about China's continual major human rights violations (which I doubt you are not aware) or simply you do not want to acknowledge the issue as it might go against a current agenda.

China vaccinates "hundreds of thousands" with trial vaccine.....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news…-BB18W5Ta?ocid=uxbndlbing

The article does not state whether the vaccines were all voluntary.. but somehow I doubt it. It is interesting that bit of information was left unaddressed.. thus my suspicion. If it was indeed voluntary, then there would have been no reason not to state it.... however, if coerced, that would play into the hands of the anti-vaxxers.

At least the head of the pharma company took it along with the others... however how likely is it he had no choice either! I think some here really under estimate the communist state's control and power there.

It is concerning.

Quote from Alan Smith

Then you have not been talking to the right people.

ETA. One of the people at this confenence has been complaining about IH to me only this evening. I cannot reveal who, that would be betraying a confidence.

You had supper with Rossi!   

As I said, I have not been given evidence, so that is all I can say. Hearsay is just that !

You do not say if this person was a partner / signed on with IH or not. There are plenty of people who complain about IH... just read this forum! But then again, they are not working with IH and have no real beans in the soup do they! It appears that the known legitimate researchers working with IH seem to be happy, at least I have not seen evidence otherwise.

Quote from THHuxleynew

4 drugs to try - and Vit D - all better (because plausible and no negative evidence yet) than HCQ. These are attacking the stage of the disease that matters, its transition from symptomatic mild to severe.

Who, with me, is going to cheer lead for the cheap, generic, Vitamin D and hymecromone?

THH

I have been taking Vit. D (along with Quercetin and Zinc) for quite a while at least 2 months. Hopefully it already has provided useful prophylactic protection or perhaps made symptoms so minor I was asymptomatic. (An unfortunate issue though, not knowing if one has it or was contagious. One cannot track or trace!)

So I will cheer anything that is safe and works. If not proven to work via RCT, then at least as stated before, has a theoretical basis, is supported by significant observatory evidence from a wide base of medical practitioners.

I will have to investigate hymecromone as it is new to me as of your posting. Thanks!

I just hope that the number of people who contracted Covid or may have had major negative symptoms did not do so because they did not take Vit. D earlier... waiting for such a report!

Quote from THHuxleynew

se of COVID is different from the general case because Vitamin D (just like HCQ) has known effects on the immune system. As with HCQ working out what those are, and whether they end up positive or negative in COVID patients, can only be decided experimentally.

" can only be decided experimentally."

I disagree to some extent with this. Observational evidence CAN be used to determine if an agent is effective or not! It does NOT have to have a RCT or "experiment" specifically. It certainly does not hurt to have such and I am not against it, but lacking such investigations, experiment is not absolute! You diminish observational evidence too much!

Take scurvy for example....

"In 1579, the Spanish friar and physician Agustin Farfán published a book in which he recommended oranges and lemons for scurvy, a remedy that was already known in the Spanish Navy.^[39]

In 1593, Admiral Sir Richard Hawkins advocated drinking orange and lemon juice as a means of preventing scurvy.^[40]

In 1614, John Woodall, Surgeon General of the East India Company, published The Surgion's Mate as a handbook for apprentice surgeons aboard the company's ships. He repeated the experience of mariners that the cure for scurvy was fresh food or, if not available, oranges, lemons, limes, and tamarinds.^[41] "

This was long before the "official" cause and cure of scurvy was found and published! No experiment nor RCT was done here.

HOWEVER..... note this very interesting outcome ....

"He was, however, unable to explain the reason why, and his assertion had no impact on the opinions of the influential physicians who ran the medical establishment that scurvy was a digestive complaint."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

So...... A working cure that was being used successfully by many (without experiment or RCT) and then was PROVEN exceptionally effective and safe several years later was "pooh poohed" and ignored by the "influential physicians who ran the medical establishment" ..........!!!!

How many thousands of lives could have been saved?????????

Hmmmm.... sound familiar?

"Sigh..... yes, we are MUCH more learned and intelligent than those "influential physicians" were back then. Men of Science are not capable of making those mistakes today as they all know better! We cannot trust any observational evidence and should ignore it as it is not REAL science!"

Quote from Curbina

IH, on the other hand, has not much fans over here. And the patent was applied for by IH.

What has IH done that warrants such animosity?

Losing $10,000,000 dollars to the scammer Rossi?

Exposing Rossi for the fraud and liar that he is? (Proven by court documents)

Paying legitimate researchers for their work? (Note, I have not heard of ONE complaint from ANY of the several legitimate LENR research partner of theirs! Not one! (If so, someone should please provide such information and source)

Oh wait... being a capital venture firm must be the reason!

So if the above researchers are satisfied, why should people here be vilifying IH? If IH is so evil, then one would have to say these researchers are likewise as well as they are willingly and happily working with IH!

But condemning a firm for being a capital venture firm is simply a political prejudice and nothing to do with legitimacy nor even intent!

That would be the same as stating that certain researchers have "no fans" here because they do not "open source" all their IP and freely give away all! Hmmm... let's see, who does that now? I guess no one!

I have yet to see any evidence presented against IH of wrong doing or malfeasance except being a capital venture firm.

No, I am not a paid schill for IH, I simply do not agree painting disparaging pictures simply due to one's political bias.

Quote from Alan Smith

He has publicly announced elsewhere that he had a stroke, and now I am told he has Covid.

Thank you for the update.

I wish him well. I would assume he is in a high risk group for Covid and that it could be very serious indeed.

He certainly is an interesting person!

(I always wondered why he chose his name...(or pronounced it for that matter! Abd?) I should have asked him!)

This thread was started by Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax several years ago and after a dispute here was "no longer welcome".

Has anyone heard how he is doing? It appears his website is not being updated?

Quote from THHuxleynew

https://www.statnews.com/2020/…xychloroquine-fact-check/

We bought a tremendous amount of … hydroxychloroquine, which I think is, you know, it’s a great malaria drug. It’s worked unbelievably, it’s a powerful drug on malaria. And there are signs that it works on [coronavirus], some very strong signs. And in the meantime, it’s been around a long time, and also works very powerfully on lupus. So there are some very strong, powerful signs, and we’ll have to see. Because again, it’s being tested now, this is a new thing that just happened to us, the invisible enemy, we call it.

… It’s a very strong, powerful medicine, but it doesn’t kill people. We have some very good results and some very good tests. You’ve seen the same test that I have. In France, they had a very good test. But we don’t have time to go and say, gee, let’s take a couple of years and test it out. And let’s go and test with the test tubes and the laboratories. We don’t have time. I’d love to do that.

This remark is misinformation, rather than false information. It is true HCQ is good at prventing malaria - which is completly irrelevant to the point at hand - Trump quotes it as supporting evidence. "In France, they had a very good test". untrue. Raoult's test was very poor, as all the competent scientists who have looked at it say. Trump sets up his opinion against science,

I’m not a doctor. But I have common sense. The FDA feels good about it. As you know, they’ve approved it, they gave it a rapid approval, and the reason [is] because it’s been out there for a long time, and they know the side effects and they also know the potential.

The Food and Drug Administration has not approved hydroxychloroquine, or any other drug, as a coronavirus treatment. The FDA has, however, issued an emergency use authorization for the drug.

What do you have to lose? And a lot of people are saying that, and are taking it. If you’re a doctor or a nurse, a first responder, a medical person going into hospitals, they say taking it before the fact is good.

Given the surge in eBay sales of chloroquine phosphate, and the anecdotal reports in Arizona and Nigeria of patients poisoning themselves by self-administering chloroquine formulations, there’s concern throughout the public health community that Trump’s exhortations to try the drug could do more harm than good. Of course, Trump isn’t encouraging self-medication, telling Americans instead to “go through your medical people.”

So what do the medical people say? Jeremy Faust, an emergency physician at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, has attempted to caution against the idea of hydroxychloroquine as a preventive medication. He tweeted Sunday: “Patients with lupus, arthritis, other conditions are *already* on hydroxychloroquine. And we are diagnosing them with Covid-19 LEFT AND RIGHT.”

https://pharmaphorum.com/news/…-19-vaccine-trials-start/

Trump retweets (see link) a tweet strongly advocating HCQ and calling fauci a fraud.

Given that Fauci represents the medical establishment - having POTUS say US medical establishment (or its most prominent representative) is fraudulent is exactly what I am complaining about. You will not find such from Obama. And the tweet retweted is false.

https://pharmaphorum.com/news/…n-is-banned-from-twitter/

Trump (again) defends HCQ after his son is banned from twitter for saying it is a cure for COVID.

Then Dr. Immanuel:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53579773

Facebook and Twitter have taken down the viral video in which she appears, saying it violates their policies about misinformation - but not before it was retweeted by Donald Trump and one of his sons.

The US president defended himself, saying he found Dr Immanuel, who was born in Cameroon and is based in the Texan city of Houston, "very impressive".

"She said that she had tremendous success with hundreds of different patients, I thought her voice was an important voice but I know nothing about her," he said on Tuesday.

(and BTW she is a nutjob of an extreme sort).

Trump delivers very strong medical opinions while saying "I am not a doctor", "I know nothing about this doctor". At the same time he promotes (via retweeting) those who say doctors are part of a conspiracy and fraudulent.

it is not about whether the exact words he used are false or true. He is canny enough over very high profile issues to backtrack and hedge any obviously false remarks. It is that he is quite clearly - and clear to the 30% of US population who strongly support him - making these claims and also supporting the view that the doctors are wrong. That has a very bad effect on US population actions, and trust in doctors at a time when it is desperately needed.

Evidence for US population not trusting medical establishment (or I can find plenty anecdotal evidence)?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

45K cases/day

approx 1K deaths / day ( 3 / 1M / day).

UK rate is 0.15 / 1M / day (population size adjusted figure is still 20X better - and the UK had a very bad epidemic peak due to early incompetence).

THH

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Thank you for your evidence and I guess we will have to simply disagree.

Now it is down to intent and innuendo. As you gave provided quotes from various medical sources, as you must realize, I can provide a counter one. Such as the Henry Ford Health Systems very positive position on HCQ.

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

You may argue their results but not their competency. I can argue your posts results and positions as well, providing counter links from medical sources. So we are at a stand off there. This very thread is full of reports that HCQ has a positive effect. Some more believable than others.

The vast majority of Trumps statements you post above are absolutely correct. HCQ is a long time use drug, it is very safe under doctors care, (he states to seek physicians care). You do not like this because you do not like him and therefore his motives MUST be villanous.... or so it seems. The rest of his statements are completely subject to opinion or interpretation. "it is not about whether the exact words he used are false or true. He is canny enough over very high profile issues to backtrack and hedge any obviously false remarks." I.E. "I can read his thoughts and agenda from between the lines". Well, I can make that same statement for every politician.... liberal or conservative. That does not make it true. People here often accuse YOUR intentions and motives as being anti-LENR. Are you? Why can you decipher Trumps intent and people here not able to decipher yours correctly? I think you can see what I mean here!

My last words on the subject is that the religion of science is not the last word in social politics. Science is important but not omni-important. That being a "nice guy" is not paramount job qualification for president. It is much, much more. One of the most important, is getting things done...the right things. The problem is that "the right things" are different in many peoples mind and thus political partisanship is birthed. Science can assist in prioritizing and qualifying but is not the only tool.

So we are now back to a stalemate. Both sides have medical opinion. Both sides CERTAINLY have political agenda. Neither side has absolute answers. But to decry one without the other is simple political partisanship. Plain and simple.

You read the above Trump statements and "see red". I read them and see standard political speech. No different than other politicians such as the ones calling to abolish (defund) the police, which is exponentially worse than saying the HCQ should be investigated.

But then, that will not be disparaged because the "right team" is pushing it! (My bias showing through here and I admit it! )