Quote from mjtrac

I do have one question, though I'm not sure if it is answerable, but, worth a try.

Does anyone have an informed opinion as to whether (regardless of theory) the effect being observed by Mills and Brilliant is the same (previously?) hard to replicate phenomenon that has been observed by all or some of Rossi / Brillouin / Mizumo / etc...; or are the effects sufficiently different that they might not represent the same "surprise" in physics? Inquiring minds, layman class.

From my reading I would say it's the same underlying phenomina, like for an example chemical reactions. Different conditions and elements change the energy amount achievable and what not. I personally believe this is a phenomina smack dab between chemistry and atom-smasher. It's a catagory called by many names, alchemy, pico-chemistry, binuculear atom reactions, dense hydrides, and hydrino chemistry. The mechanism is electron/electromagnetically mediated, the bonds settle inside the regular valence shells, in the core electron's orbits. Hydrogen is the key element, either catalysed to condense and bond with another hydrogen or bonding with a heavier metal creating low energy transmutation with 2+ positive cores intact. That's what the data is saying for me so far. Alan said something important, genuine fusion or annialation events may actually reduce the cumulative excess energy (overstepping the sensitive range) while producing neutrons, tritium and gamma.

The helium/He4 results are explainable, the low energy transmutations are explainable, the mismatched energy levels compared to the fusion/proton capture numbers are explainable. Proton+proton and proton+metal nuclei close bonds present a much more consistent answer. Starting from *H2(1/4) at ~0.5keV up to ~100keV for some heavy metal like Thorium + *H. Deuterium or deuterons work as well and in some cases give better results. This keV scale energy is a photon release after replacing a core electron, or radiating potential after condensing electron shell and settling in a good well. The reaction environment seems sensitive, more like tuned pico-chemistry then thermonuclear reactions. But that is just an educated hypotheses. Mills has shown a simple agua based approach, he also explains the He4 signals with below fusion high energy experiments.

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

LeBob I agree when it comes to first implementations to keep them as simple as possible and stick to the basics.
But I am also a bit puzzled why Holmlid et all do not mention the combination with Lithium-6 as an option in their overview papers.
The usage of Li6 within μCF implementation is easy accessible open source information to which they even refer to themselves at Norrontfusion's website.

It will be well worth following their MK1 developments as this is a unique new relative simple concept that has only been shown at laboratories.
Right now this looks like only a paper project.

Well idk myself, maybe cost prohibitive or they just aren't thinking wholistically.

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

There have been a number of small updates on norront fusion energy a.s.'s website that are worth mentioning here.

Firstly, they introduced a consept prototype fusion reactor plant within a standard shipping container (15kW - 1MW).

Secondly, they removed the term 'annihilation' from most of their their website pages and are seem to indicate more focus on muon catalized fusion (μCF).

Annihilation energy is (proposed to be) released from:

However the decay energy that is released by this proposed process seems complicated to harvest.
The scientific proof is solely suggested by Holmlid himself and there are no independant confirmations yet.

Maybe the reason to put this on a slow burner for now.

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Truth, we are more sure of multiple real observations of the hydrogen effects than we are about the direct harnessing of the decay.

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

That makes sense of course.
But why not consider Li6 to enhance the main fusion process?
Maybe you want to keep things as simple as possible at this stage of development, I guess.

Simple and solid engineering seems to be the highest approach, the greatest engineering is simpler design. The first step seems to simple, safe and decentralised for them (granted the COP of *H2 forming may need work) and the third is to impractical currently. The catalysed fusion is very complicated but It is miles above what we use now! Business wise this makes sense if your goal is to secure IP, or make replication difficult, and hard to accomplish with common materials. I like the first step. Something you could put water and maybe a recycleable readily available transition metal fuel in, powering a mobile micro grid generator/heater. Congrats on their progress.

Quote from fabrice DAVID

This is probably a very big discovery, which concerns the LERN field.

Let me explain :

A magnet is a ferromagnetic compound. Each individual spin is perfectly aligned with the others. In this sense, it is a "spin crystal".

There are also antiferromagnetic compounds, in which the spins alternate in one direction and in the other, according to their position in the crystal. (In alternate sheets, for example) This is another "spin crystal".

But these new materials are undoubtedly "quasicrystals of spin". As such, they must produce the same effects as quasicrystals, namely anharmonic summations of phonons, giving rise to the occurance of "breathers" and "freezers".

Of course, here, in these materials, are moving both phonons (quantum lattice vibrations) but also spinons. (waves of spin) So there must be the equivalent of "breathers" and "freezers" for spinons. That is, places where the spins spin very quickly, and other places where they are "frozen". The interaction of spinons with phonons must produce interesting phenomena.

First, the propagation of sound waves in metal must be done in a particular way.

On the other hand, if we insert deuterium in the neodymium lattice, who knows? perhaps we will observe interesting phenomena. What if neodymium was the future palladium?

An advantage of this new candidate for LENR is that it is much cheaper than palladium, even if it is a "rare earth".

I can't wait to read experimental reports!

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In terms of all around good features can you beat the first row of transition metals for mainstream metal/hydrogen reactors? At least when you factor cost, and commonality of your fuel. I guess hydrogen plasma with trace water vapor would be simplest, but which metal fuel substrates have the highest bang for the dineros?

Quote from Jack Cole

This is not surprising. I have thought it unlikely for several years that Godes has anything except a lot of confidence in his engineering and physics skills. Unfortunately, confidence does nothing to breech the Coulomb barrier. He sunk millions of dollars into silly engineering for a commercial system rather than actually nailing down the research. He's getting closer to the truth, but may not be able to get there now. He is looking back trying to figure out why he is not getting anything now. His current interpretation is that there was some special material he was using in the past (which he perfectly understands why it worked), rather than the likely reality (they finally did a proper experiment and his past results were false).

The goal shouldn't be to break the coulomb barrier or splinter the nucleus if you want a compact energy dense clean source. A key is to see how much good an atom can do splitting the line between fusion/proton capture and valence surface chemistry. I would guess pico-chemistry and dense hydrides are the highest explanation we have. That's what I would presume Godes is dealing with in heat positive experiments. Work with the atoms and plasma/electromagnetic effects don't brute force and smash atoms expecting a rosey sun in a bottle. He got something right

Hope y'all have a restful weekend!

Quote from Cydonia

Probably great members here will say this understanding remains necessarily in relation with Holmlid work again ...

Should be interesting for quite a few people working with electromagnetic and superchemical metal interactions, right?

When I read this through I was pleasantly surprised that they took the dual-nuclei hydride approach, quite logical I might add, seriously! https://www.researchgate.net/p…_heat_energy_and_hydrogen

The highest soft x-ray peak energy is about in line with what we should expect released from Ni + Atomic H in a picoscale merger. The hydrated silver from the other Suncell and the trace metals in the Sun's corona might undergo similar processes. The use of water vapor is smart to me, and the intentional splintering of the metal for efficient interactions too! They mention in other papers and posts made on this sight that they would use this for hydrogen production... If there is a way to recycle the gasses produced (in stead of producing hydrogen as an end product) you get a vortex "water suncell" with a metal powder power boost. He or Ar should get recycled, unsplit or recombined water vapor could get recycled too, let that free oxygen flow like a plant! Enough hydrogen would stick around to get catalytically reacted to *H2(1/4), a psuedo-He4 dimer AND react with Ni to form psuedo-Copper (depending on how many protons can stably swim in the core electrons embrace).

Quote from can

LeBob

Perhaps this could be helpful: https://xdb.lbl.gov/Section1/Table_1-2.pdf

If the principle is the same, the formation of a Nickel pico-hydride would release slightly more energy than what is proposed for iron although I haven't read the theory in enough detail to confidently state this. (EDIT: this would be considering the excerpt below)

Potassium would evaporate at lower temperatures and take less energy to ionize, which should be an advantage compared to sodium. I think a major factor is that hydrogen will readily take the molecular form under pressures close to atmospheric, which would hamper the proposed reaction that needs protons. So possibly lower pressures, higher temperatures, high-surface area catalytic surfaces (where hydrogen would be adsorbed as separate atoms) or a combination of these might help as well.

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As Can said here. In a similar order of magnitude to Fe. Output from the max soft x-ray spike from paper is a tad lower. Probably the spectral lines were broadened and diffused to lower frequencies due to multi-particle absorbtion and re-emissions giving slightly lower max. Amazing.

Quote from Ahlfors

Mechanism of thermal runaway as a cause of Fleischmann-Pons effect

Starting from papers by Fleischmann and Pons, many investigators have found the excess power effect during a heavywater electrolysis. They connected this effect with the deuterons“cold fusion”. A significantly larger number of investigators did not have found this effect, so they do not agree with the proposed explanation and consider the results of Fleischmann and Pons being a mistake or an instrumental artifact. In this paper experimentally proved that the Fleischmann-Pons effect (of burst type) is caused by an exothermic reaction of a recombination of the atomic deuterium accumulated in electrodes during electrolysis of the electrolyte. This reaction is similar to the reaction of thermal runaway in electrochemical batteries with aqueous electrolyte. Thus experimentally proved that the Fleischmann-Pons effect is not associated with cold fusion of deuterium nuclei. While the Fleischmann-Pons effect (of the weak type) is due to a partial recombination of the deuterium and the oxygen, i.e. in this case the excess power is apparent or imaginary. It is shown that the established mechanism of Fleischmann-Pons effect explains all the currently known experimental facts. The recommendations are given allowing a reproduction of this effect without a failure.

Received 12 March 2020

Accepted 5 May 2020

Available online 22 May 2020

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Something more energetic than D2O recombination, with stranger reaction results, definately seems to have happened.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Maybe I misunderstood mark, he said sub-ground - i thought he meant Mills but I guess he could just mean inner shell. those are not really hidden!

THH

True I think it was in reference to the general possibility of exothermic reactions from any electron level or bond below what we would consider the standard valence electron surface. For hydrogen there is nothing stopping the electron from emitting energy below standard ground state, just needs a lock to stabilise it cause it will jump back up endothermically otherwise. That's why two H cores in a picoscale sweet spot between mass and coulomb/electric forces could be a metastable exothermic result catalysed with water. Same possibly with hydrogen, suitable heavy metals and the emergent phenomina known as transmutation.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Yes, but the Menorah actually exists!

We are talking potencial symbolism or coorelation. Wait are you saying that the electron levels below the valence level don't exist? That is quite a scientific claim even more ambitious than the one you are decrying.😉

Quote from Alan Smith

I think you two need to get out more.

lol I think you are right about that, but for different reasons Alan!

Quote from Mark U

Yes. YES.

We have the Outer Court of the temple, then the Holy Place inside, and then inside further, behind the veil, we have the innermost Holy of Holies.

The Outer Court clearly represents the known outer electron orbitals. The more inner Holy Place contains the Menorah (the seven candle thingie), which represents the hidden, sub ground electron energy states. The Holy Place also has the Laver, which holds water. The water symbolizes that this applies to hydrogen. Going further in, through the veil, is the Holy of Holies, wherein is the Shekinah Glory, which of course represents the high energy of the nucleus. The veil represent the coloumb barrier, which only the high priests of science can finesse to get through to the Shekinah, if they have the secret.

OK, that mystery solved. Next?

Also shows that when you cross the barrier to the most holy with the wrong intentions or Willy Nilly destruction ensues. The holy place with the hydrogen/water (smart connection Mark!), and the courtyard are the domain of humanity. The hidden electron levels and hydrogen bonds are energetic enough to supply all reasonable energetic desires for the masses. Just like regular priests and citizens never crossed to the most holy due to the instant death from shakinah radiation. Even if we enterpret it from a post-messiah framework we all became priests, access to the holy, but only Christ is the High priest and the lamb in the most holy.

Ever thought about the 4 living creatures and the 24 elders around the throne in Revelation... the closest 4 S-shell electrons are the places desired for pico-hydride bounding. This adds up to 28 electrons so we are looking at Nickel, coincidence? If you just have the 2 archangels you get 26 which is Iron. So much possible symbolism was right there all along, those hidden electron levels are for all who will use it peacefully!

Are we still waiting on the priests of science to allow us into the holy place or tell us we can intercede on our own behalf because of the 'sacrifice'? I mean microgrids; neighborhoods, blocks, small towns, industrial buildings and infrastructure producing their own power yet still connected. We stupidly want to skip to the most holy symbolically, I'm pretty sure destruction is waiting there if our motives aren't pure. We already have the solar core above and fission/decay in the earth (a MSR underground seems worthwhile) given to us. We should skim processes from the Sun's corona and learn from lightning.

Quote from RobertBryant

There is a recent report on subsidised coal in the US..

The Coal Bailout Nobody is Talking About

JOSEPH DANIEL, SENIOR ENERGY ANALYST | SEPTEMBER 24, 2018, 10:27 AM EDT

I think Australai has a simlar problem..... the state of NSW is thw worst byt Covid has not affected Coal..still running at 90% of the fuel input... not much wind/solar.

https://aemo.com.au/en/energy-…ta-nem/data-dashboard-nem

https://blog.ucsusa.org/joseph…t-nobody-is-talking-about

"The latest results suggest that, across the four coal-heavy energy markets, coal-fired power plants incurred $4.6 billion in market losses over the past 3 years or $1.5 billion dollars in market losses each year. Most of these “losses” were incurred by power plants owned by monopoly utilities and are not absorbed by the investors or owners. Rather, those costs were likely covered by customers. Consequently, I estimate this practice places a least a $1 billion burden on utility ratepayers each year."

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Since the fossil fuel, PWRs and agriculture based energy lobbies argue about stable baseload fuel based sources, the stimulus/tax cuts they would get should go straight to new sources in that category. Earmark grant or bailout money so it has to have a certain amount spent on cutting edge chemical/atomic energy. Even better have research efficiency and public experiment result quotas required for the R&D for gov't support. Following assistance package amounts would be dependant on how much progress/creativity the R&D divisions produce. Speed of dynamic customer stream trickle down would also be a factor. So energy conglomerates that transfer over to superior tech while sharing research fundamentals publicly are rewarded by the system. It's pretty much tax paying community service.

I can't say that I for sure am behind a particular company, but I think paradigm shifting plausible energy sources that have been researched for up to 70 years should have their "promised land" realisation close to horizon. And I think it will heavily resemble Hydrinos and LENR. It's all about moving closer together to give more.

Another biblical parable, look at the atom like the jewish pre-messianic sanctuary. We are moving energetically from the courtyard of valence phenomina to the holy place in the middle, figuratively speaking. The most holy I'm guessing that's the thermonuclear scrambling of nuclei by brute force, the dominion of star cores, blackholes and quasars. Keep electrons involved nuclei intact. Three in one, A metal nuclei Hydrogen or suitable heavier (D-block) metal, H isotope for a second nuclei in a close dance and the distributed electron orbit sphere or cloud surrounds the two in an atom sized compound. H2O is interesting as well. It's all about moving closer to give more light.

https://brilliantlightpower.co…our-duration-suncell-run/

Update.

Quote from mjtrac

Would anyone here be willing and able to summarize the energy in versus energy out over, say, a 24 hour run of the BLP setup, where energy out is the thermal energy available to an external process or the electricity that would theoretically become available from a PV cell array covering the device's available "lit" space?

I'm just trying to understand, on the assumption that BLPs numbers are accurate, what sort of a COP is being stated to be available. Thanks.

There is a published COP for way shorter timescales in particular. 5 is what I've seen quoted recently on the website for a 200+ kw set up.

Quote from Alan Smith

LeBob

We don't move posts to this thread lightly.

Understood!

robert bryant 100s of eV would be the proper scale of energy for this. Atleast according to quoted theory and what we observe as possible in hydrogen plasma/gas reactions observing the coulomb barrier, electron energies etc.

Quote from Alan Smith

I have moved Mark Goldes posts into this thread. Nothing personal, but since all of his work is contentious and many of his posts promotional it needs to be viewed with caution.

Thanks I am not investing in a name I am just hearing. I am interested in dialog with independant verification or promotion of alternative super chemical hydrogen based ideas.

Quote from Mark U

Thanks for this. That patent by Evaco LLC is remarkable! It uses relatively low voltage (=~50V) and relatively high current (=~120A), and essentially explodes water. The patent was filed in 2008 and it references many times Mill's low energy hydrino state, but without the typical catalyst (like Potassium) that was required by BLP. This is before Mills did the potential energy calculation which revealed that water itself (in unbounded form) could catalyze hydrino formation. So Evaco's 2008 patent filing of using high current and water (among other things) to produce power easily predates Mills' Suncell work along these lines. (In 2010 Mills was working with solid (powered) raney nickel.)

So now I'm wondering if Mills got some ideas from Evaco...

Evaco's patent - it seems to me - involves more engineering than the SunCell. It uses magnetic confinement among other things to avoid hot spots.

This gasous water, atomic hydrogen and electric discharge formula seems bigger and older than BLP and Mills indeed, he did popularise it, extend research and provide theory. I like the magnetic confinement approach for heat management. Even better is a self confining plasma vortex, z-pinch or ball lighting like set up. Gonna read the patent.

Quote from Bob#2

I must say I am confused. I thought Mizuno already had funding and a significant partner? That was why the silence on his own recent work. Why are modes investors needed now?

Shane.... "admittedly slapped together.... modest appeal to investors" sounds like something from ECW defending Rossi! You know the "he is dissuading competition by looking so bad"! Modest appeal? Really?

If this is true, then who ever is making this decision has no business experience or education at all! Slapped together will NOT be an appeal to any investor. And again, I thought is was stated that a partner was already in place? Why try to attract investors with a poor website? This is getting too close to Rossi's approach. Try to find a target so gullible to fleece, and do it by weeding out the smart ones with such drivel that he posts....those that stay on are likely easy targets. (A variation of SOT's explained Ethiopian email scam technique)

I "dunno".... this does NOT bode well. The LENR field should stop swooning over such poorly substantiated announcements/ events! They do the field no good!

How many have been similar to this to only disappear or be completely discredited. The number is getting large! No photos due to giving IP away! BS! This is another Rossi standard operating procedure.

Perhaps it is time for the LENR crowd to expect a higher level of professional conduct and presentation. The field already has a black eye and websites "slapped together" for "modest appeal" do nothing to help improve that blemish. Just look at the actions, promoted "end of fossil fuel" and the resulting black eye. Another head shaker.

I want LENR to succeed as much as anyone, but I am not willing to go down the "Rossi lane" support anymore for those who make an "announcement" that looks like this.

Fool me once, shame on you.... fool me twice, shame on me... try to fool me a third time and I will speak my mind clearly and loudly!

Again, this is not just poor PR / marketing.... it borders on really smelling like dishonest conduct. Modest investors from a slapped together website, using fake photos and admittedly will not be refined for some time.....this is not a good sign at all.

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It's almost like their afraid of drawing "too much" attention, when IMO compact hydrogen reactors should have the same smooth media platform as fission MSR and "compact" hot fusion startups.

https://brilliantlightpower.co…ell-gas-using-a-cryopump/

Well this update focuses on details about dihydrinos and a 4 hydrino dimer form. So all this "He4" results from experiments with insufficient energy balances to be fusion have something to show. IDK H2(1/4) exists through multiple independant experiments. Most likely the bonding mechanism that stabilises the giving up of electron orbit energy is the mutual draw of two+ atoms and they only stablise at the 1/4th scale for H2. I would posit these pico-chemical states whether it is *H2(1/4) alone or *H inside a heavier metal are dependant on there being at least two cores involved. Two is a lot better than one! 8-D