Cutting Through the Fog Surrounding the Rossi/IH Dispute (Josh G)

  • Rossi signed an IP license agreement and took $$ in exchange. He is committed by contract to teach and exchange the contracted IP to the licensee. If he doesn't deliver the IP and / or fails to teach the licensee adequately then contract issues come into play. In addition, have you noticed that the "Customer" arrangement isn't even part of the contract?

  • Quote

    Rossi signed an IP license agreement and took $$ in exchange. He is committed by contract to teach and exchange the contracted IP to the licensee. If he doesn't deliver the IP and / or fails to teach the licensee adequately then contract issues come into play.


    That is always what I have (naively) thought likely - reading the license agreement.


    Quote


    In addition, have you noticed that the "Customer" arrangement isn't even part of the contract?


    Yes, the $89M payment is for guaranteed operation of the plant over 350 days. No customer. But for Rossi, the "customer" was a PR advantage, making many at the time (though not me) believe that therefore the plant must be working.

  • quoting tech sort of failed ... I'll try again ...


    @TClarke

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    No-one can deny his ability as a showman: and in LENR he has found his perfect audience with a real heartfelt desire to believe if at all possible, and an agenda of "saving the planet".



    Just curious. Is this a scientific judgement of yours or just another ad-hominem conspiracy theory?

  • Rossi signed an IP license agreement and took $$ in exchange. He is committed by contract to teach and exchange the contracted IP to the licensee. If he doesn't deliver the IP and / or fails to teach the licensee adequately then contract issues come…


    So ... and ... ???


    This is old news covered many times. What are you spinning here? If it is IH opinion that Rossi breached the contract, why didn't they sue him? And why didn't IH perform the MW test in Raleigh the time period stated in the contract?


    and,


    As I asked many times; do IH see any business value in a future valid license agreement? It seems to me now you are confirming this to be the case, or?


    My conclusion is that you again confirm my main hypothesis: http://www.sifferkoll.se/siffe…icense-agreement-leaches/

  • Hi Sifferkoll,


    Sifferkoll wrote:


    Just curious. Is this a scientific judgement of yours or just another ad-hominem conspiracy theory?


    What is it with you and conspiracy theories? I'd really like to understand what these theories are you see in my posts? But I guess you see conspiracy theories in quite a lot of stuff, reading your blog...


    Both statements are observations. Rossi does indeed spend a lot of time on his blog and with demos creating a good show for his audience, and his audience (see ECW comments) really wants to believe, and also sees LENR as a way in which the world can be saved.


    Surely none of this is contentious? Do you disagree? If so with which bit?

  • Just curious. Is this a scientific judgement of yours or just another ad-hominem conspiracy theory?


    It is not a scientific judgment of mine, in that I don't know what would make it "scientific" (or not scientific) on my part, without being loose with language. It is a judgment of mine on the basis of simple considerations of physics. Consider a 1 liter volume of kerosene, and set it on fire. Kerosene has one of the highest chemical energy densities. It will all burn off fairly quickly and yield a certain amount of heat. Measure the heat using calorimetry of the kind Tom mentions. Now take a 1 liter E-Cat, and let it yield 1000 times more heat than was produced when the kerosene was burned, taking care about the input power that is needed. Once you've got a net heat in the live run, subtracting input power, that surpasses that of the kerosene by two or three or four orders of magnitude, what you have is not a chemical source and must be something other than chemical. This should not take too long if the E-Cat has a COP of 50, or of 6. Perhaps on the order of days. (An actual test would use a resistance heater as the control rather than a liter of kerosene.)


    None of this is controversial. Many on Vortex would (and do) agree. A year-long 1 MW test was difficult to understand in more than one way. It didn't need to be anywhere near one year, and it didn't need to involve anywhere near 1 MW. It reminds me of ITER, or RAR, moving to a large scale before things have been fully demonstrated at a small scale. Rossi is a bit of a cipher, and he surely has his reasons. If one is generous, one might wonder whether his primary purpose was to investigate those details relevant to commercialization such as durability and output, with demonstrating a COP to IH being a nice secondary result.


    Ad hominem is an argument that is "directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining." Can you clarify?

  • Sifferkoll


    I particularly liked you link: sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/lenr-…icense-agreement-leaches/ the following quote (hope you don't mind) I think reflects the situation admirably:


    We have now entered the fighting phase. As Mahatma Gandhi said First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

    Best regards
    Frank

  • Sifferkoll - your voice is becoming as weak as your logic. Your spin, attack and misinformation tactics are tired.


    Rossi sued IH as part of his escape strategy to another set of investors (he should patent that business model if it was legal). If he is allowed to continue, he'll soon be finished with you and your pals as well and off to his next escapade in Asia (you don't know about that one yet). You're already out your money so you just need to hope for the best instead of spewing vitriol all over the internet. IH has a paid-up license agreement in certain territories for whatever Rossi invents that is Ecat related. It will be in his absolute best interest to come through for somebody with something that veritably works some day soon.

    At least we both want a cleaner planet - I'd advise that you also consider a hedged bet.

  • Dewey


    IH has a paid-up license agreement in certain territories for whatever Rossi invents that is Ecat related. It will be in his absolute best interest to come through for somebody with something that veritably works some day soon.


    Yes, I agree, providing the contract is valid and not set aside by the court due to a 'breach of contract' by one or both parties.


    We must wait and see!!


    Best regards
    Frank

  • If he is allowed to continue, he'll soon be finished with you and your pals as well and off to his next escapade in Asia (you don't know about that one yet).



    Well, Dewey, we know about it now I guess. I don't suppose you could tell us a little more abut Rossi's new customers, which as you say is not in the IH contract for him to do?...probably not, as everyone in LENR land likes to do these teasers. I call it the: "I know something you don't know...hahaha" game. :)

  • Sorry Shane D - filing lawsuits and coordinating PR wars always co-travels along the double-edged sword of knowlege development, battlefield management and information sharing from concerned parties, whether intended or not. Rossi is new to this game and it's been a very productive month in that regard. Sorry that you're only getting bits and pieces - that is the way that it is for now.

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    Of course if the technology absolutely does not work and has never worked, then I want to know that to. I don't think that is likely. If so, then I don't see much hope for the world and there would be much more important things to do than talk on forums. If I had a family, I'd focus on preparing as much as possible for a very bleak, dark future.


    There are many other carbon-free sources of energy:

    • (normal) nuclear. Got very undeservedly bad press
    • Renewables - PV in particular over equatorialparts of teh world looks very highly competitive - all those deserts...
    • Even way-out inertial fusion - there are enough weird ideas there, and high-power lasers are still developing technology. Worth a punt.


    So don't despair!

  • God bless you Hank! (I hope that is not offensive to you) - A couple of observations. Rossi signed a contract and accepted $11.5M in USD to deliver a technology that he claimed was working. So far, he has failed to deliver. Whether he can remedy that or not will be up to him. Failure to remedy will have consequences.


    Regarding whether LENR technology works to the level that it can be applied to mitigate pollution within our lifetimes, while not creating other forms of pollution (heat, gamma, toxic waste??), is your real question. I believe that some very nice solutions are beginning to manifest and more than one solution will result in useful and affordable clean energy output within the next 5 years or so.

  • Dewey


    Frankwtu - why do you imply that Sifferkoll scares me? Also, please explain your logic and the intended implications behind your question?


    To me at least Sifferkoll's views warrant attention from you, which is fair enough. but I cannot understand why you should even want to spend 'dreaming time' let alone a response here when in your own estimation you say:


    Sifferkoll - your voice is becoming as weak as your logic. Your spin, attack and misinformation tactics are tired.


    For me, if I thought that, it would be a good enough reason to ignore the post, but not you, why? You must think it has 'worth' in order to present a 'challenge'. Where is the 'chivalry' in challenging an opponent who you know is week and of no consequence. Were you to win such an encounter it would hardly count as a 'noble' act from which you could claim victory.


    No, I think you saw sifferkolls views as presenting substance and wished to devalue them. A challenger who fears his opponent has to degrade the opposition before entering into combat.


    Best regards
    Frank

  • @Weaver

    Quote

    Rossi signed a contract and accepted $11.5M in USD to deliver a technology that he claimed was working. So far, he has failed to deliver. Whether he can remedy that or not will be up to him. Failure to remedy will have consequences.


    Well, I see this as yet another comment strengthening my "Rossi in a tight leash" hypothesis on IH absolutely not wanting to have the license agreement invalidated. Mr Weaver is more than ever before focusing on Rossi not delivering the IP that IH wants since IH breached the contract by not paying (and probably other stuff as well). Why care if it is worthless???


    Conclusion is that IH did certainly not expect the complaint. They were expecting slow negotiation with NDAs and further delays ... No surprise really Mr Weaver going ballistic and trying to cover his tracks in FUD ...

  • Dewey,


    As Sifferkoll said, that one comment of yours does make this sound more like an IP issue IH has with Rossi, rather than he rigged the 1MW test. Maybe you said it wrong, or maybe a freudian slip?


    Point is that IH can't have it both ways. If they are convinced the 1 year test was rigged, the IP shouldn't matter to them. If the IP is still important, that means they aren't so sure the ERV's conclusions are wrong. So which is it?


    You are Darden's man here, so words do have meaning...especially from you. ;)

  • Shane D - I appreciate your attempt to clarify and don't understand the confusion. IH has a paid up license to all ECat IP in the licensed territories. The IP hasn't been transferred yet which may be remedied if one of Rossi's Ecat reactors can be verifiably and successfully demonstrated/transfered to the satisfaction of IH. Rossi has a contract issue if he continues to fail to deliver on that $11.5M commitment / obligation.


    The 1MW test is a separate matter. Rossi has imagined that he has succeeded in proving that his 1MW system has sustained a certain performance level for 350 out of 400 days with a fake customer and compromised measurement and data systems. There are numerous discrepancies, errors and deceptions on record. That list actually continues to grow. Rossi has claimed there is a legitimate legal dispute there and he will soon become more educated and aware of the IH response plans.


    I expect that you'll be able to understand this. I won't get my hopes up for Frank and Sufferkoll

  • Did you guys go to the same high school?


    Frankwtu - as usual, you failed to answer my question.


    Sifferkoll - Your money is gone. I can handle the loss - how about you?


    I'm amazed that you actually seem to believe I'm passionate about LENR from a financial point of view! Yes, I make some bets from a otm put pov, which means they are cheap with a nice upside, but might need to be rolled forward. That's part of the game. So, I can promise you that you do not need to worry about my losses (and I do not bet other peoples money, do you?) ... but since this seems important to you, and since you having a reputation of running around raising money for Darden et al, this might not be your case, eh? Maybe you have some explaination to do, covering your tracks for your fellow investors? Explaining how you so misarable misjudged Rossi by plotting to steal IP and not paying for his services... That would be interesting to hear about considering your latest posts. :rolleyes:

  • Shane D - I appreciate your attempt to clarify and don't understand the confusion. IH has a paid up license to all ECat IP in the licensed territories. The IP hasn't been transferred yet which may be remedied if one of Rossi's Ecat reactors can be…


    Again. As I said. This is starting to look very much like the battle I have been predicting from the start in numerous posts on http://sifferkoll.se


    Of course it is about Rossi not delivering in full before payment of the $89M. He would be stupid to do so. What did IH think? I can understand there being loads of contract issues on the IP handling during the autumn from both sides. Probably more or less exactly as stated in the complaint and Rossi simply waiting to deliver final IP until final payment was settled (no time constraint on that delivery in the contract). And when IH breached the contract, Rossi do not need to deliver and the license is invalid.


    It all comes together now. The MW test needs to be ruled COP<1.6 for IH not paying at all. You're actually saying that you want Rossi to deliver IP... If you know it is all worthless? Why?


    "Fake" customer is a new epithete. Really really strange as you stated that you did not even start to worry about the test until late autumn in earlier posts !!!!! If the ERV report sais COP 50 then of course there is a legitimate legal dispute. Even you should get that.


    Wow! Mr. Weaver. Your loud mouth really seems to be loosing it ...

  • "Fake" customer is a new epithete. Really really strange as you stated that you did not even start to worry about the test until late autumn in earlier posts !!!!! If the ERV report sais COP 50 then of course there is a legitimate legal dispute. Even you should get that.


    @sifferkoll Even I'm not interested on reading you two fighting all over the places, I can hint you that all this makes more sense if you consider the following (lets call it still scenario at this point):
    - Dewey has agenda to help IH indirectly to put up more fog over Rossis claims for court case.
    - Dewey does not have any big guns backing him up. He is just lonely VC who took calculated risk and is now in road to recover. He is here mainly to minimize his losses but has some level of relation to Mr Darder though.
    - Dewey have not been in IH:s real inner wheel at that time. He wasn't even aware of problems with ERV until around time when Rossi sent their case to court..


    So for me he is here just to play for IH:s position and marketing his sympathies to LENR and environmental issues for preparing his future adventures.
    Read back all his posts here and Matts blog and notice that he has not practically answered none of the direct questions asked from him, but instead promoting his message. That's why he is not worth chasing in my opinion.


    I see even more important that @randombit0 caught @Thomas Clarke pants around his knees on Lugano report thermal analysis in other threaad. He is continuing putting up his counterclaims, but I noticed already that he stopped publicly admitting and underlining when he gets caught. That is something what he promised in before, but did it only in one posting as far as I can count. Why I see this more important is that he made so strong and theoretically grounded claims against Rossi, that it is very important to put things straight. That is what we try to do in this forum also?

  • Quote

    I see even more important that randombit0 caught @Thomas Clarke pants around his knees on Lugano report thermal analysis in other threaad. He is continuing putting up his counterclaims, but I noticed already that he stopped publicly admitting and underlining when he gets caught.


    That is false. Would you care to substantiate it with specific quotes, so I can explain any misunderstanding you have?


    As for publicly admitting: I am perhaps unusual is that the one time I have made a mistake here I publicly admitted and underlined it. That mistake did not in any way affect my comment on Lugano (it was a separate and new matter raised by Wyttenbach) nor did it in any way show that the Lugano comment was wrong. But it was a mistake. When posting here without much reflection it is easy to make mistakes. Luckily it is easy also to correct them.


    The light in which you cast this is, I believe, reprehensible. Anyone interested could read the whole thread to see.



    Tom

  • Dewey


    I know you do not like doing research and would rather guess. So for the interests of clarity and 'facts' see:



    Best regards
    Frank

  • Frank - you have my support of course over this ridiculous half-claim from Dewey. I only said this once because the accusation seemed so silly. I should have noticed the continued harrassment earlier.


    Frank's character, as evidenced by their respective posts, is nothing like that of Frank A. Such things cannot be hidden, and Dewey here is stepping over the mark - something I notice he does from time to time. Further, it is quite clear that Frank does not have a dishonest bone in his body so if he denies this, it is not true.


    While, broadly, I have similar ideas to Dewey over much of the IH vs Rossi stuff, ideas are one thing and the arguments you use to advocate them something quite different. We all have our own levels of tolerance and Dewey is outside my level.


    Of course - he will no doubt view me as a naive innocent. I'd rather that than be a bully...


    Best wishes, Tom