[feedquote='E-Cat World','http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/05/27/a-fifth-force-of-nature-discovered/']Is there a fifth force? The four well known forces in nature are gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong forces between atoms. But recently a team of Hungarian researchers from the Institute of Nuclear Research of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences have published a paper on Arxiv.org titled “Observation of Anomalous Internal Pair Creation […][/feedquote]
A Fifth Force of Nature Discovered?
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I'm wondering if this have something to do with the apparent dearth of lithium 7 in universe?
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I saw an article on science alert on this.
If it was not mentioned before. I will butcher the spelling but what is photropic? -
I saw an article on science alert on this.
If it was not mentioned before. I will butcher the spelling but what is photropic?
???
I looked at the articles. Sensational if true, but not relevant for LENR:
The Playground -
There are some "edge" areas of physics which while not relevant to LENR I'd expect to be fascinating to most here. This is one: any new particle not obviously predicted from the standard model is a very big deal, and the evidence for something new here seems quite strong.
I'd caution against "5th force". That is an interpretation and usually these things turn out to be explained by some assumption made in the standard calculations which if investigated leads to a bit more structure. Which in no way diminishes the interest.
Another "edge" area is Hora's hope for much higher than expected reaction cross-section from H-11B fusion using petawatt lasers. This really is LENR territory - the difference is that though highly speculative it has workable hypotheses that can be investigated through eitehr theory or experiment, as Hora is doing.
Against this: I find Hora's experimental data in detail less convincing than it at first looks.
For this: the technology of Petawatt lasers is new, and still developing. The phenomena that can happen from ultra-high power coherent radiation are not obviously going to be found anywhere else and therefore something unexpected is not contradicted by lack of evidence elsewhere. The ideas: high transient magnetic fields to contain alphas, non-thermal fusion ignition from ultra-high power coherent radiation, are interesting and plausible.
I've no idea whether IH is investing in Hora's work but maybe they should be!
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The phenomena that can happen from ultra-high power coherent radiation are not obviously going to be found anywhere else and therefore something unexpected is not contradicted by lack of evidence elsewhere.
I suspect this point can be expanded to much/most of LENR research. If so, Peter's discussion about there being lots of experimental work that would be contradicted by LENR research, adduced as an argument against it, is overlooking the possibility that the match in experimental circumstances might not be sufficiently tight to draw the conclusion. Since scientific investigation requires and assumes careful characterization of experimental conditions in order to draw meaningful and reliable conclusions, what is needed to defeat this argument is one or more new variables that are different than what is seen in the well-characterized experiments that are supposedly incompatible with LENR. It requires little imagination to conjure up significant discrepancies. -
I'm convinced of the experimental reality of LENR, but, a theory for LENR is a long long way away. The putative new boson, that has also been interpreted as a fifth force, I think potentially could be involved with LENR. A simple alpha chain reaction is an alternative posibility. Peter Ekstroms point about contradicting a lot of experimental evidence obviously is correct when considering isolated reactions. But LENR certainly is not an isolated reaction. It is high density and almost any condensed matter thing could happen: e.g. Bardeen-Cooper style pairing, or quantum entanglement, or quantum entanglement, or even some interaction of the putative new particle. The complexities of condensed matter is so high that I despair of a theoretical explanation and that is why I've said little about it on this forum.
In the past I've taken interest in Clifford Algebra and in Hestenes exposition of it. I want to reexamine all that with the putative new boson in mind. I'm just not smart enough to expect any solution will come of it from me. I just have a gut feeling that the universe is completely a manifestation of some hypercomplex number system. (i.e. we live inside a manifestation of mathematics made real).
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Another "edge" area is Hora's hope for much higher than expected reaction cross-section from H-11B fusion using petawatt lasers. This really is LENR territory - the difference is that though highly speculative it has workable hypotheses that can be investigated through eitehr theory or experiment, as Hora is doing.
There is no doubt that high energy lasers can create very high electric fields, and thus be used as accelerators. This is NOT LENR! It is also not a viable source of energy since creating the high fields (be it with accelerators or high energy lasers) costs more than the gain from nuclear reactions with positive Q-value. It is simply a balance between gain and efficiency. -
Quote from Peter
It is also not a viable source of energy since creating the high fields (be it with accelerators or high energy lasers) costs more than the gain from nuclear reactions with positive Q-value. It is simply a balance between gain and efficiency.
Well Hora claims that there is, under transient conditions and super-high magnetic field, the possibility of what is effectively an alpha-mediated chain reaction. It is very speculative but if true would provide high enough gain.
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The putative new boson, that has also been interpreted as a fifth force, I think potentially could be involved with LENR.
The beauty, and problem, with LENR is that because there is no theory, absolutely anything could potentially be related to it. But I have to say this possible new elusive boson does not look a likely candidate.
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The absorption of gamma rays during cold fusion would require the temporal formation of worm hole along long lines of colliding nuclei, the formation of which could be explained in similar mechanism, like the above force carrier during splitting of Be-8 nuclei. This nuclei is also elongated as it consists of two He-4 subnuclei. https://www.reddit.com/r/Physi…fth_force_of_nature_again
Another effect, which could relate the dark photons to the cold fusion is the monopole character of the jets and magnetic fields, observed during some LENRs. The dark matter also exhibit the anapole character, being formed with temporal particles, the life-time of which is shorter than dipole life-time. We could imagine the dark photon like the vortex ring, which is propagating along connection line of colliding atom nuclei, once it reaches its end, it decays and it propagates further like the anapole or scalar wave.
