Another implication (assuming this offer has indeed been made, so far it is only "Rossi says"): Contrary to the FUD spread by Dewey, IH knows that Rossi has valid IP. If they were convinced that Rossi is a scammer and none of his technology works, such…
Actually, I doubt that any offer has been made. Rossi was, I assume, just responding publicly to a suggestion by a poster on his blog.
QuoteAs usually, the guys of Industrial Heat are ready to sell what they do not own: now they are offering us to buy back our license, the license that they do not have […]
I think this is Rossi-speak for IH asking Rossi to take back (not "buy back") his license and return their money. Rossi's Engrish is so murky, I can't be sure. Maybe someone should ask him what he means. It doesn't make sense that IH would offer Rossi money for something they know doesn't work.
As for Zorud, if (s)he is confused by posters, that is no reason to start banning people. How can you have a discussion and learn anything if you ban participants?
Quote from zorud: “Maybe the most active "confusers" (on both sides) should be temporarily banned”
The difficulty is that the two sides cannot agree who is acting as a "confuser" and who is telling the truth. That is why there is a controversy. For…
Jed wrote: "For example, Peter Gluck is convinced that I am lying and that the timing of events is crucial."
I don't think that anyone has stated that you are lying, although you have "misquoted" some of the relevant texts and given incorrect figures several times in the past, and also used very strong language such as "idiot" etc, which might indicate to some that you are lying. However, given that all of the documents you have looked at were apparently provided by IH there is still the possibility that you have been misinformed or incompletely informed. This is obviously the issue, since if we automatically believe IH then we should believe you as well. However, if we distrust IH, or at least expect them to release full documentation (including the ERV report) before making a final opinion, then there is no particular reason to trust any information they have given you either. As clearly pointed out by Peter Gluck, three reasons to distrust IH are their public behavior up until the dispute, which includes paying Rossi $11.5 M after the validation test and receipt of IP (as specified in the license agreement) as well as Mats Lewan's statement that those who have seen the ERV report do not see any indication of large mistakes, as well as the belief by some (including myself) that it is difficult for an expert in certification and nuclear engineering to make an error by a factor of 50 unless there is deliberate fraud.
Good try Z - that would leave some open field running for Rossi's dogs.
Yes people, read what Shane D writes above. Instead of using that tiny hypotethical opportunity to crab on last straw, looks like he decided to use it for insulting IH.
Bad move, Mr Rossi used it as ammunition in his PR war. Prove of his mentality I was never hoping to witness.
I'm done with that topic and just hoping that judge takes good grip on parties an cuts the crap right in first sentence. I also apologise Dewey Weaver and IH, that I in my naive thinking accidentally offered Rossi that possibility.
So many people are comprehension challenged it the opposite of hilarious.
The linked discussion on e-catworld is mind-boggling. This is what happened:
Argon -- as I recall -- was suggesting a settlement, and Dewey suggested a possibility (which is more or less what I'd expect IH might accept, under the conditions, at least it's possible.)
This was, I think, mentioned to Rossi.
Rossi and some others (Sifferkoll, especially) believe that Dewey speaks for Industrial Heat. (Which he denies, I think.) So this became
Rossi writes about the offer as coming from Industrial Heat.
This was all discussed here.
Then someone creates the thread on E-catworld, ignoring what was well-known here. It seems that someone pointed to this here, and it was ignored.
And so there is endless discussion of what it all means, mostly making gross assumptions contrary to fact.
And various figures toss in false statements, such as the Motion to Dismiss failing.
Someone finally points to Rossi's Memorandum in response to the MTD, but does not link to it.
More confusion ensues.
Here is one of the last comments on the page:
QuoteGuest
Pweet 6 hours ago
The offer was not serious - but let's pretend it was.
If I were Rossi and I saw the suggested offer, I'd talk to my attorney. I would not publicly accept or reject it. But Rossi doesn't work that way.
1. Jump off diving board.
2. Check pool to see if there is water in it.
QuoteThe offer included the licensees and one small plant.
As Dewey wrote, it was a fairly standard contract termination for a partner not satisfied with performance. It is a lossfor IH, but only in their extra expenses (which would be considerable, but they can chalk that up to the value of what was discovered, which is not IP, it is more not-IP).
Quote- But it is the intellectual property that have the most value
There is an unclarity here that allows this to seem somewhat reasonable. The intellectual property is not the abstract set of ideas and practices in Rossi's head, but the patents and what IH was actually shown and trained to do, which didn't work for IH. They made the Lugano reactor, apparently. Their own testing of it showed no anomalous heat, according to Dewey. The vast bulk of speculation on E-cat World is that they are "stupid," to give up on this fabulous treasure trove of wealth. But if Rossi has actual IP, that works, it appears that he did not trust them with it, which is consistent with his history.
In spite of patents being published, nobody has yet confirmed that the patents are worth anything, by actually building devices that work from them, and if the patents don't show how to do that, they are worthless, except as decoration for JONP.
QuoteIH now faces possible bankruptcy and internal lawsuits by investors. Their ability to continue raising money to the field is greatly damaged.
My analysis is that it has been enhanced. I consider it highly likely that they raised $50 million from Woodford and maybe $100 million from the Chinese (I've seen no confirmation of that Chinese figure, but it seems to be accepted), after disclosing to them the problems with the Rossi 1 MW test. If this is true, they have already raised $150 million without relying on Rossi IP, and even simply having shown that they were serious and willing to risk $11.5 million on what was already obviously a risky Agreement.
There is no sign of any investor discontent with IH. We are only hearing from one investor, Dewey. He is angry with Rossi, not with IH. He was on board the original investment, with his eyes wide open.
QuoteLinguistic manipulation is all it is, pretending they control or have right to the I.P
But they obviously do, something we know from the lawsuit. Just read the Agreement! They do not "control the IP" for the world, just for about half of it. Many have pointed out that a license agreement, paid for with valuable consideration, and without any termination provision for nonpayment of future contingent debts, cannot be cancelled by unilateral declaration, but on Planet Rossi, fact is established and incontrovertible if "Rossi says."
And since Rossi said that IH had made an offer, then people start to assume that he was contacted by IH. And of course, this is proof that IH knows it's going to lose. Etc.
IH might not accept such a settlement, it would be contrary to their original plan. Or they might. I'd find it a difficult call. The main thing that is not understood on Planet Rossi is how much damage the Rossi claims were doing to the LENR field in general. It was necessary to find out. A continuing possibility is that Rossi has real devices, but refused to disclose how to make them. If IH considers that a reasonable possibility, they might choose to hold onto the IP. I consider it likely that they will show in court that they do not owe the $89 million, at least not yet, i.e., that is what the court will decide if it comes to that. How equity would be established, though, I do not find obvious. The judge, I'm told by a lawyer, may knock their heads together and, ah, strongly encourage them to settle. I can imagine ways.
I also apologise Dewey Weaver and IH, that I in my naive thinking accidentally offered Rossi that possibility.
No harm has been done to IH, nor to Dewey. This simply exposes the situation more deeply.
Blessed are the peacemakers. You tried. I appreciate that. Rossi easily could have said nothing, or "Thanks, I'll consult my attorney." Instead, he simply behaved like Andrea Rossi.
Yes people, read what Shane D writes above. Instead of using that tiny hypotethical opportunity to crab on last straw, looks like he decided to use it for insulting IH.
Bad move, Mr Rossi used it as ammunition in his PR war. Prove of his mentality I was never hoping to witness.
Good point Argon. His using this good faith outreach (my opinion only) as ammunition does not necessarily mean Rossi is closed to negotiations, but if he were, it sure sets a bad tone. Very poor taste of him to have said what he did. That may come back to haunt him.
It is legend that Rossi has a very difficult personality. Even his greatest fan (Fabiani) talked of it in his Lewan interview. If he has something, his mercurial, paranoid nature has already cost him untold billions, and looks to cost him more to come. He may yet turn out to be a brilliant inventor, but by any measure, whether fan, or not, he is a miserable failure as a businessman.
Very true. He has cast many good friends aside over the last 10 years - and they all say 'fascinating, charming, brilliantly intuitive, but unpredictable and moody.'. But they all still respect him - to varying degrees perhaps, but respect him they do.
But they all still respect him - to varying degrees perhaps, but respect him they do.
I suppose if they are still friends it follows that they respect him. But I know many people who dealt with Rossi, gave him money, and thought they were his friends. He betrayed them. He defrauded them, or used them as pawns to defraud others, the way he uses Lewan. The way he uses his supporters here from "planet Rossi" who think he always tells the truth and can do no wrong. He lies, manipulates, and does terrible experiments. He has destroyed many lives. His victims despise Rossi, to the point where some of them hope he again ends up in jail. I think it is likely he will go back to jail.
I hope that someone manages to stop him before he defrauds more people.
I don't think that anyone has stated that you are lying,
You are incorrect. Gluck and others have accused me of that, in no uncertain terms. Ask him yourself if you have any doubts.
I do not mind that he does that. I think he is blinded by wishful thinking and by disappointment in Rossi. Here is what I do mind:
* Gluck and others passing judgement on the technical details I have described. They do not have the information. They have not seen Rossi's data. They have no business saying I am wrong. For that matter, they have no business saying I am right. For a scientist, the only legitimate response is to WAIT FOR THE DATA. You can note there is a controversy. You might speculate that Rossi is right, or I am right. But you cannot take a firm position.
* I mind that people refuse to acknowledge that I.H. and I mean what we say. We are not kidding. We say the test was a total failure and there is no way the reactor could have produced heat. (I can't say there is absolutely no heat, but I am sure I.H. has more data than I do, and they can.) We may be wrong, but we are not equivocating. I find it annoying when some people keep coming back and saying, "well, maybe I.H. is only saying they don't know the answer" or "maybe they just mean there is no significant heat" or "maybe they just mean Rossi did not teach them the IP secrets." No. That is not what we mean. I mean the test was an outrage. The instruments, the configuration, the data and every other aspect of it reeked of fraud. There is not the slightest chance it produced the results Rossi and Penon claimed. The customer site was a crude fraud. The whole thing was a ridiculous put up job; a transparent attempt to swindle $89 million.
There. Have I said that clearly enough? Are there still people who claim I don't mean it, or I mean something else? Call me a liar if you want, but do not say I am unclear or equivocating.
Display MoreHi all
So the motion to dismiss has failed.
Now IH are stuck with the No Compete Clause.
Rossi intends to hold the contract valid.
Kind Regards Walker
So you are just blatantly making up rumors now and passing them off as fact? I see you even posted this over at E-Scat World. Frank must be getting REALLY lazy over at E-Scat World as he posted it as well...that forum is such a joke. Walker...seriously...did you not think you would be called out on this? =facepalm=
I suppose if they are still friends it follows that they respect him. But I know many people who dealt with Rossi, gave him money, and thought they were his friends. He betrayed them. He defrauded them, or used them as pawns to defraud others, the way he uses Lewan. The way he uses his supporters here from "planet Rossi" who think he always tells the truth and can do no wrong. He lies, manipulates, and does terrible experiments. He has destroyed many lives. His victims despise Rossi, to the point where some of them hope he again ends up in jail. I think it is likely he will go back to jail.
I hope that someone manages to stop him before he defrauds more people.
The ends justify the means...
Consequentialism is the class of normative ethical theories holding that the consequences of one's conduct are the ultimate basis for any judgment about the rightness or wrongness of that conduct. Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right act (or omission from acting) is one that will produce a good outcome, or consequence. In an extreme form, the idea of consequentialism is commonly encapsulated in the English saying, "the end justifies the means",meaning that if a goal is morally important enough, any method of achieving it is acceptable.
The development of LENR is so important to the continued existence of the world, human society, and the great improvement in the welfare of people worldwide, the reduction in poverty, increase in health, any level of bad behavior is acceptable to reach that goal.
What happened to the motion to put all Rossi related posts into one thread? I saw a lot of votes for it. AR is becoming a major distraction at this point. Brilliant Light Power will be demonstrating a closed system on Tuesday and Mills is saying that all of their Q2 milestones have been met. I think too many people have been caught up in the cult of personality with Rossi. At some point we have to ask, what are we doing here?
Shane wrote:
QuoteHe may yet turn out to be a brilliant inventor...
Consider Rossi's past (Petroldragon, Italian legal problems, thermoelectric fiasco with DOD, no record of any achievement ever) and tell me: Under what conceivable scenario would that be possible (details please)?
Deleo wrote:
QuoteBrilliant Light Power will be demonstrating a closed system on Tuesday and Mills is saying that all of their Q2 milestones have been met...
I wish a single, truly independent, credible and understandable, clear test would be one of the milestones for Mills. Hasn't happened in 20 years of grandiose claims and after consumption of some $100M of investor funds, so I don't expect such thing anytime SooN!
Jed Wrote:
QuoteThere. Have I said that clearly enough?
Yes and you did a fine job of it. Yet you seem to hold out the possibility that Rossi has or had some real powerful effect with his supposed Ni-H fusion. How can that be? He is such an obvious you-know-what-but-if-*I*-say-it-I-get-censored.
The development of LENR is so important to the continued existence of the world, human society, and the great improvement in the welfare of people worldwide, the reduction in poverty, increase in health, any level of bad behavior is acceptable to reach that goal.
If Rossi were actually contributing to the progress of LENR, you might have a valid point. But that is not what he is doing. He is using LENR as bait to commit fraud. He has contributed nothing to the field. On the contrary, he has helped destroy the reputation of the research, and he has diverted funding from real research.
So his bad behavior is not justified at all.
Edison and Steve Jobs often acted badly. They ripped off investors and ruined people's lives. But they also made important contributions to technology. Perhaps you are right that the ends justify the means in their case, and their overall contribution was greater by far than the harm they caused. I agree that is true of Edison. However, Rossi has contributed nothing. He is only in this for the money.
At least, as far as I can tell he has contributed nothing. I will grant there is a chance that some of his earlier devices did work. It is hard to judge. He made it hard to judge, on purpose.
Yes and you did a fine job of it. Yet you seem to hold out the possibility that Rossi has or had some real powerful effect with his supposed Ni-H fusion. How can that be?
That can be because people are complicated. History is complicated. Sometimes, people who are extraordinarily evil, debauched, or thieves also make important contributions to science. Robert Stroud, a.k.a. the Birdman of Alcatraz, is a dramatic example. His book is so good, it has been in print continuously since 1933:
https://www.amazon.com/Disease…roud-ebook/dp/B004SB0A5W/
Read about him.
Genghis Khan is another interesting example. He was an enlightened leader in some way, who brought peace and progress. Heck, for that matter, a lot of people in Russia sincerely loved Stalin, for good reason. Read about Mother Teresa too. Not a nice person. The reality was the opposite of her public persona.
He is such an obvious you-know-what-but-if-*I*-say-it-I-get-censored.
Yes, he is obviously a fraud. So were Edison and Steve Jobs in some ways, in some of their business dealings. So were many others. People can be a strange mixture of good and bad.
Just because someone is a thief, and an evil s.o.b., or even among the 20th century's most notorious war criminals, you make a big mistake if you dismiss his scientific claims. I have no love for the late Emperor Hirohito. Along with many Japanese people, I thought he deserved to be hung for war crimes. But he was still a good marine biologist. We should evaluate his work without letting his war crimes affect our judgement of its scientific merit.
Many great scientists such as Newton were insufferable jerks. Some of the cold fusion researchers were like that. I won't name names, to protect the guilty.
Really? You compare Newton, Edison and Jobs to Rossi? You must be trying to make free energy from their spinning around in their graves!
Really? You compare Newton, Edison and Jobs to Rossi?
Yes, and also Robert Stroud and the Emperor Hirohito. I suggest you stop reacting to what I say with the first thing that pops into your mind. A more subtle approach is called for. Stop and think about what I am saying instead just jumping to conclusions and reacting like someone who has touched a hot stove.
