Well, I maybe jumping to conclusions, but I would say that the photo evidence and the statement from Rossi shows an extreme likelihood that both photos are in NC, which I am sure IH can verify with comparison photos of the NC site and the test site.
So…
And the need for a dividing wall at Raleigh was?
No- those photos are from the Miami site for sure, the IMW device was AFAIK never completely set up until it reached the Doral site. I wonder where it is now, btw?
It is double padlocked in Doral.
Tic tok.
Tic tok.
And the need for a dividing wall at Raleigh was?
Rossi doesn't like people looking over his shoulder.
Look at the roof beams and how they are supported at the wall interfaces in the 2 red container photos. They are the same in both photos of the red containers, so both photos are probably at the same site.
Also attached how the reactors, heat exchanger, condensate tank and piping may have been arranged.
As the 40ft ECat container with the dual reactors is clearly elevated quote a lot, this would suggest the black unit on the other side of the wall is 10ft high as Rossi claimed, which BTW does not have the top structure of a container.
Sorry Engineer, you are incorrect. While both photos have similar style joists (as is common nowadays for similar type buildings), they are not the same building or at least the same wall. It is pretty obvious by the very large gap differences between the bottom of the joists and the cement lines. Camera angle would NOT account for this huge difference. There is also a very well defined upper line completely missing from one of the photos. The devil is in the details....
EDIT: I see from looking at another photo that what I thought was the end of the container is actually the side...engineer's drawing has the doors in the wrong places. I should not have gone by his drawing.
Whatever that is, it is in plain view. Rossi says the machine was hidden. I.H. says it was hidden. So whatever that is, it isn't the 70' hidden machine.
Which precautions would an engineer make, if the customer fails to consume the delivered energy (steam) ?? I assume the box behind the wall is a condenser, to ensure that only water flows back.
There was only a small fan in the shipping container, and another small fan in the reactor room ceiling. It was normal warehouse space ventilation, not industrial. I am sure the waste heat would be at least 100 kW if there were 1 MW of heat. 100 kW in that room with that ventilation would be fatally hot.
You overlooked the air condition, which can be seen side mounted to the container...
Sorry Engineer, you are incorrect. While both photos have similar style joists (as is common nowadays for similar type buildings), they are not the same building or at least the same wall.
It's obviously not the same wall, as it is obviously not the same view (photo tags, no pipe, just carrier for a cable.. etc..) of the container. I assume one is the front side the other the back side.
Display MoreWhich precautions would an engineer make, if the customer fails to consume the delivered energy (steam) ?? I assume the box behind the wall is a condenser, to ensure that only water flows back.
You overlooked the air condition, which can be seen side mounted to the container...
It's obviously not the same wall, as it is obviously not the same view (photo tags, no pipe, just carrier for a cable.. etc..) of the container. I assume one is the front side the other the back side.
How can one shot be from the front and one from the back when the joists go perpendicular to door end in the photo with two containers, but run parallel to the door end in the other photo? (Engineer shows that the doors are on the ends of the containers). It also looks like the bases of the two containers are dark and inset (definitely the right container) while the photo with the single container is the flat bottom rail style and matching red paint. Small details, but something to consider.
EDIT: I see from looking at another photo that what I thought was the end of the container is actually the side...engineer's drawing has the doors in the wrong places. I should not have gone by his drawing.
JedRothwell wrote:
You overlooked the air condition, which can be seen side mounted to the container..
It is amazing what idiocy is repeated on these fora, even though it's been confronted before. This comment is a demonstration of how Wyttenbach doesn't understand ordinary physics, the kind that most people have gotten from their experience of life. He actually has a PhD, though not in physics (it's in mathematics); still, I'd think that an ordinary university education would provide enough understanding to avoid this error. Air conditioners pump heat from the space to be cooled to a space that is heated, not only by the heat from the cooled space, but also by the heat created by the compressor due to its inefficiency.
In this case, then, the net effect of the air conditioner is to heat the room. It would be like running a window-mount air-conditioner on the floor instead of in a window. There are floor models, but they use a vent hose to a window, circulating outside air through the air conditioner. The goal of that air conditioner is to cool inside the container, which will be hot even if this is only a 20 KW water heater, well insulated. At a megawatt, we really wonder.
Or it would be like opening your refrigerator because it's hot in the kitchen. Nobody does that! Refrigerators do make the kitchen hotter, but they are cooling a small space, deliberately. Walk-in refrigerators or large commercial units will have a heat exchanger on the roof or outside.
Imagine that the insulation in the E-cat assembly is really good, call it 95% efficient. That would mean 50 kW of heat showing up inside the container. An air conditioner may be running a few kilowatts of cooling, though it will have also simple air circulation for cooling, if the room is cooler. A standard small heater, 15 Amp, is roughly 2 KW, so 50 KW would be like 25 of these heaters in the room. Subtract one for the air conditioner, maybe two if it is heavy duty (will need more than standard wall socket power).
What defenders of Rossi have pointed out is that air circulation can remove a lot of heat. Yes, it can, but the vents will get very visibly hot in the infra-red. Cooling a megawatt is not simple at best. Doing it and making it invisible in the IR would take extraordinary measures, and who would bother except one trying to hide something (like marijuana growers)? In this case, why would they want to hide it? It makes no sense.
There is a very simple default conclusion here, if Industrial Heat has good IR evidence. This will be trivial to explain to a jury. It is not complicated.
Counting down, two days to Friday and the Answer is due.
It is amazing what idiocy is repeated on these fora, even though it's been confronted before. This comment is a demonstration of how Wyttenbach doesn't understand ordinary physics, the kind that most people have gotten from their experience of life. . . . Air conditioners pump heat from the space to be cooled to a space that is heated, not only by the heat from the cooled space, but also by the heat created by the compressor due to its inefficiency.
In this case, then, the net effect of the air conditioner is to heat the room.
Yes. And even if this were a floor unit that flushes the heat outside, it is so small compared to the waste heat from 1 MW, it would not make a significant difference. If the shipping container door were closed, it might make the inside of the shipping container a few degrees cooler, while heating up the room. A person in the shipping container might die a little later with the air conditioner running, and several hours later his body would be cooked medium instead of well-done. If you left the shipping container door open it would make no difference at all.
Anyway there is no excuse to refuse access to the plant, even under NDA and with restricted/no access to machines, unless it is criminal activities or no activity.
In fact there is a possible conspiracy. If you want to convince your license owner you are a crook, you publish a ridiculous report to all his competent friends, you prevent him to check anything that may convince him the technology is working, you organise incredibly bad test, oppose any demand to make the test good, remove all good instruments, manipulate and constrain incompetent professional to produce incredible bad reports, you do all to raise the red flags and the bullshit detector of all moderately rational people, adding some ridiculous announces and predictions that turns wrong everytime.
it works, I fall in the trap finally.
Look, this is a one megawatt car engine. Look and try to get a grip on what a megawatt actually means in practice and in real life. Then tell me Rossi couldn't have that amount of power being generated for a year in a small office space with close by neighbors.
Yes Mary. But I think that this unmodified Nissan 370Z's engine would in fact be much louder.
The two "cat"photos are clearly in different locations.
A standard container is 8 feet six inches high.
That is consistent with the "green" wall being 8 feet high, and the end of the 10 foot x 10 foot x 70 foot (literal) black box showing 2 feet above it.
The panorama is highly distorted, and the colors are blown out (hemi-semi-demi-professional photographer speaking) : in particular, the two visible sides of the customers black box are equally dark.
IMHO there IS a large piece of "pretend" equipment in the building, and an 8-foot wall is sufficient to hide any activity in that area. (Also allowing for the possibility that the wall may have been raised or curtained off).
Did IH use an IR camera INSIDE Rossi's section? Everything except the return pipe is insulated -- was that between 60 and 90C ?
By December 11, 2014, the Plant was in Florida being built, according to Vaughn.
The Triangle Drive, Raleigh building was empty on the 12th of December 2014.
- NCDDHHS report, January 13, 2015, Allegation 2014-01
I sure would like to see a photo or two of the inside of that warehouse.
It is amazing what idiocy is repeated on these fora, even though it's been confronted before.
Imagine that the insulation in the E-cat assembly is really good, call it 95% efficient. That would mean 50 kW of heat showing up inside the container.
Thank You ABD, you finally managed to get rid of your frustration.
I think in Your case we must not even discuss about physics...
I believe everybody else understands why Rossi mounted an air-condition outside his 1MW container. If it managed to draw 1kW of heat out of the container, that would have been enough. I would have enjoyed a gentle breeze of cold air.. may be You need one too.
The Doral site has three huge doors, which could be openned by pressing a button. Why not using them?
Here's something else to entertain yourselves with.
And here is somebody moving something in or out Dec 15 2014.
I believe everybody else understands why Rossi mounted an air-condition outside his 1MW container. If it managed to draw 1kW of heat out of the container, that would have been enough.
The only way to "draw out" any heat would be shut the shipping container doors, and if there were actually 1 MW of heat being generated then shutting the doors would "keep in" about a hundred times more heat than the air conditioner could draw out.
Do you cool your kitchen by leaving the refrigerator door open?
The only way to "draw out" any heat would be shut the shipping container doors,
For a man who claims a 20kWh heater was in place, You switch topics to often...
I would ask Rossi for what purpose he used the air-condo - may be to protect some electronics! If 95% of the heat went to the customer site what is conservative - when using steam -, then 50kWh/h is not that big deal to vent through three big doors.
I just don't like lies like the inside of the container must be hot as hell. This is very very cheap FUD.
If my main job would be to down Rossi, then I would study the process 'he claims to run' on the other side. 24'000kWh/day is just a different scale, given that most thermodynamic processes are not that efficient. (But if phase changes come into play then things may look quite different...)
I would ask Rossi for what purpose he used the air-condo - may be to protect some electronics! If 95% of the heat went to the customer site what is conservative - when using steam -, then 50kWh/h is not that big deal to vent through three big doors.
One. Last. Time:
IF the doors are left open THEN the air conditioning cannot do a bit of good. It will cool the air inside the container, warm the air of the room, and the air from the room will come into the box, making everything warmer.
IF the doors are shut, the waste heat even from a 20 kW reaction will overwhelm the air conditioner, making the inside of the container even warmer than it would be when the doors are open.
"And here is somebody moving something in or out Dec 15 2014."
Mystery solved!
The trucks in the photo must have been the ice delivery trucks! It takes about 1 MJ to melt 3 kg of ice.
1 MJ = 1 MW-sec and that means the trucks need to deliver ice at a rate of 3 Kg per sec or 180 kg per minute.
The small truck/van in the photo might hold 5 times that (900 kg), so it only needs to make an ice run every five minutes.
