Rossi vs IH: (Update: Sep. 9 20– James A. Bass now a Third Party in IH’s Counter Complaint)

Quote from JedRothwell

A chimney would not suffice to keep the room comfortably cool.

That's a blanket statement, and hence a statement that is inherently incorrect.

In other words, it depends on the size of your chimney. One could easily remove 1MW with a natural draught chimney, but it would need to be very large. A fan would reduce the necessary diameter.

Does such a chimney/flue exist in the Doral premises? Who knows? There's certainly a big chimney cover on the roof. And do the published photos cover the entire volume of the "factory"?

My post on natural aspiration is at Rossi on the Challenges of Developing E-Cat Plants

My very rough calculation indicated that natural aspiration would only vent about 12,000 CFM of the required 27,000 CFM

Alan F: Natural aspiration at *reasonable temperatures* requires *roughly* 10cm^2 of chinmey/flue area per kilowatt.

Whether this becomes acceptable for a given installation depends on many other secondary factors.

Quote from zeus46

That's a blanket statement, and hence a statement that is inherently incorrect.

In other words, it depends on the size of your chimney.

I do not think so. Unless the magic production machine is inside a giant Dewar vessel, it will radiate heat from the walls of the machine. Even if the chimney removes all of the heat from inside the machine, there will still be hundreds of kilowatts of waste heat from the walls. That would make the room intolerably hot, unless there were also hoods with fans.

In real life, there is no chimney, and no hoods, and no way you could have even 100 kW of heat released in this room without it becoming very hot. Also, it would be against the law in Florida to release even that much heat without approved ventilation.

Quote from JedRothwell

there will still be hundreds of kilowatts of waste heat from the walls.

Kwh/h ??? or just per day...which would make sense!

Quote from Alan Smith

Rossi has changed Lawyers to a practice with experience in technical matters in order to present -when the opportunity arises - technical proof that the 1MW plant is real and it works. This proof will (I think) be in the form of one or more totally independent replications of the technology by serious entities.

If true, and Rossi delivers the goods in X months or years to the satisfaction of the court, perhaps he'll eventually draw the conclusion that it would have taken far less time and money simply to work with IH to collaboratively agree upon a rigorous test in the first place, rather than try to unilaterally push through a dubious test.

But we must wait for developments to hatch before counting them.

kWh/h DOES appear to be widely used in Europe ... particularly in the power generation field.

eg https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/KWh/h (ggogle-translated)

kWh / h , or more commonly MWh / h , can be perceived as an anomaly , but is a term used by power producers to describe produced electric energy per hour, or "time effect". Similarly kilowatt (kW) expressing the energy produced per second, or "second impact" .

A graphic representation of the effect (instant production) to a power plant will have very rapid variations and will be hard to read. In a similar graph of MWh / h will be more able to see that the power requirement increases sharply in the morning hours and then fall slightly out of date forward to a new peak towards the afternoon.

The max power production of a powerful car might be used just 10 seconds per day when getting on the freeway.

The max power production of Rossi's reactor might only have been used for very short periods of time when 1000 liters of water had to be heated to rinse metal foam. The foam production process might have only required a limited average daily BTU power production capability, but the user of that power might not have wanted to wait for a hour to get the rinse water up to proper temperature when he did need hot water.

This high capacity production method is the principle that high capacity tankless hot water heaters use. What Jed is assuming is that because you have a 800 hp engine, you must use 800 hp 100 percent of the time 24/7/365. What the license agreement said was that whenever steam was produced, its temperature had to be 100C and use just 25% of the energy that it would usually require to produce that steam (COP=4). There was no need for max power to be used 100% of the time, Jed's argument is wrong headed and contrived to befuddle the weak minded.

@axil,
Rossi and Penon are the ones who said the COP was 50 or more. They claimed the Plant was making 1 MWh, or sometimes 750 kWh, all day. Regardless what the GPT needed to be.
If Rossi and Pennon's math or measurements are wrong, then they cannot prove a COP of 50, or a COP of 4.

Edit: OK, if only their math is wrong, then maybe something can be scavenged by doing it correctly.
If the measurements are wrong, then the whole year was a waste of time.

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

Rossi's first answer on this question on his blog was "endothermic chemical reaction," which is implausible because of the need to deal with product.

Rossi mentioned the chimney, almost in passing, before mentioning an endothermic chemical reaction, and before the issue of dissipating 1 MW of heat became a central criticism. The timing is important because it bolsters the chance that Rossi was telling the truth about the chimney.

Quote from Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

What was reported to him of what I wrote about his comment was badly distorted.

Were you the one who suggested the two 'h's cancel out in kWh/h? Isn't that the "stupidity" that Rossi was responding to? I had no idea that it was possibly you until reading your comment above.

Quote from JedRothwell

Even if the chimney removes all of the heat from inside the machine, there will still be hundreds of kilowatts of waste heat from the walls.

There is a thing called insulation.

Quote from JedRothwell

Even if the chimney removes all of the heat from inside the machine, there will still be hundreds of kilowatts of waste heat from the walls.

Which is why double walled chimneys are typically used in practice, with the cavity being insulated.

Quote from JedRothwell

In real life, there is no chimney

This may well be true. I'm not sure, I haven't been. Have you?

I know there's Murray's statement, but there's a few things written in that which make me dubious of his motives. He is after all a paid consultant hoping to bolster his clients case in an upcoming lawsuit in which a lot of money is at stake.

He doesn't lie, but there are, I believe, some misdirections. The misrepresentation of the flow meter specs was an obvious one, the DN40 pipe is in my opinion, another... I mean, why would the "steam" pipe be thinner than the return pipe?