Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • It ius better to have Rossi Diabolicus with a working technology than perfect man with no technology.

    Here 80% goes about Rossi's character and 20% about the issues of real interest, Y/N?

    peter

  • IHFB - R is doing things in his head - there are no photos of that.


    Stop dodging. You suggested that Rossi had changed things out including pipes. Then I called you on it because you had before stated that pictures and measurements of pipes had already been taken. So if Rossi changed everything up since then, you could easily prove that by pointing to your prior pictures. Instead of addressing my point, you then switch to things in Rossi's head? Get real please.

  • Sorry, the pipe issue will never become moot. IH will either be entirely vindicated on the DN40 pipe size, or otherwise exposed for what they are.


    You are doing it again. IH have never claimed the pipe size is anything.


    Their expert, in a written letter sent to Penon asking questions, made it clear that he believed the pipe size to be DN40 - based on what we do not know, but from the letter context most likely what he was told by Penon/Fabione/Rossi etc. Whatever, this letter was unanswered and therefore any innacuracy, whomever started it (which is not clear) was never corrected by the person in theory - though maybe not in practice - best able to do so. Now, why did the ERV not do this?


    In any case, this comment in a letter gets transformed by you and other speculation here into "IH said the pipe size was DN40". And now, it is translated furtehr into some deep deceit from IH - when if they had themselves said this it would surely more likely be mistake rather than deceit.


    So it goes. Do you wonder people like me feel it proper to weigh in on the side of IH against this stuff?

  • THH,

    please excuse me for answering unasked. The 40mm steam pipe appears in Exhibit 5, a document in which ill will is evident, a want to destruct the technology- with the hyper- erroneosu

    idea of half full pipes and flowmeter (impossible to see) with questioning the rounding up of flow instead of telling about the recorded data of real time maeasurements. Murray, an IT expert had a task and the small pipe good for less than 100 kg steam/hr is just one of his nventions/calumnies.

    Correlate this with what Dewey told that Rossi has no expertise in REAL steam systems. Why is he telling this? Just frommemory- steam as at Doral has approx 0.6 kg/mc and a speed of max. 25m/sec. calculate please the section of the necessary pipe.

    Peter

    PS Penon has the right to not discuss with people who have no ideas of technology. I doubt I would have answered suh a message.

  • Shane - I'll give you one guess as to who showed up as the company witness for the JMP deposition - I'll even give you some help, it wasn't Bass or Johnson.


    Peter - Rossi's claims are completely impossible after our experts have finished their review of his system. The non-existent equipment he was seeking two weeks before the customer rental agreement started confirms that he had no idea what he was doing AND is going to make you cry.


    Penon has proven that he doesn't know beans about much of anything. The dragnet just got wider for complicit co-conspirators as well. Some of these folks don't have too much more time to come clean if they want to have any hope of hanging on to their scientific integrity.

    • Official Post

    I'll give you one guess as to who showed up as the company witness for the JMP deposition - I'll even give you some help, it wasn't Bass or Johnson.


    Can I buy a vowel? :) Hmmm, let me think about this. Named co-defendants are Rossi/Johnson/Fabiani/Penon/Bass, and you eliminated Bass and Johnson. Of the remaining 3, Fabiani is hiding in Russia, and Penon is probably back home in Italy after taking a mini-vacation to the D.R.


    That leaves only one person left. I give...who? :)

  • Which is why he graduated from University with the highest possible honours. 'Summer comes Laundry' as they say.


    Alan. You can't win this one. if Penon is on the ball than he is professionally incompetent in signing the 2012 test report that was so badly written, and by somone else. I'm not sure whether the incompetence is worse if he read it or he did not. Since Mats reports that this happened, and I'd expect him to have evidence from Penon or Rossi, whichever way you slice it Penon's ability to act as a competent ERV looks prejudiced. (If this story is all made up by Rossi Penon should have called him on it before now).


    Anyway DW says the setup is obviously rubbish - which is what was expected from previous partial info. DW has on factual matters rather than innuendo been pretty accurate and if the setup is rubbish, and Penon is so clever, then he is either way out of his depth doing something he has no training for, or acting very innapropriately.

    • Official Post

    Alan. You can't win this one.


    I didn't know we were playing a game I was supposed to be winning, I just offered a real fact rather than an innuendo. Penon was a top honours student, what he has done with his life after leaving university and before meeting Rossi I have zero knowledge about. And neither do you. For all I know he spent his time chasing women, fishing and drinking beer. But while he might have been stupid, he certainly isn't daft.

  • I didn't know we were playing a game I was supposed to be winning, I just offered a real fact rather than an innuendo. Penon was a top honours student, what he has done with his life after leaving university and before meeting Rossi I have zero knowledge about. And neither do you. For all I know he spent his time chasing women, fishing and drinking beer. But while he might have been stupid, he certainly isn't daft.


    And here you are offering innuendo.


    What, in my previous post, was innuendo, as you imply?


    :)

    THH

  • You are doing it again.


    There you go again.


    Quote

    IH have never claimed the pipe size is anything.


    Yes they have. It was IH's exhibit, submitted in proceedings, which in no uncertain terms states that the piping was DN40.


    Quote

    Their expert, in a written letter sent to Penon asking questions, made it clear that he believed the pipe size to be DN40 - based on what we do not know, but from the letter context most likely what he was told by Penon/Fabione/Rossi etc.


    Not so. You might want it to be so, but that doesn't make it so.


    Quote

    Whatever, this letter was unanswered and therefore any innacuracy, whomever started it (which is not clear)


    Yes, it is clear. Grammar doesn't lie.


    Quote

    was never corrected by the person in theory - though maybe not in practice -


    But it sure was trumpeted here by Jed and others as proof certain that Rossi is a fraud. Once I demonstrated that the DN40 claim is very likely false, all of the sudden Exhibit 5 is inconsequential and shouldn't be given much weight.


    Quote

    best able to do so. Now, why did the ERV not do this?


    Because he sensed something was amiss with IH and decided to remain silent toward the end. Had I been in his position, I would have probably done the same and let the testimony be given later at the appropriate time.


    Quote

    In any case, this comment in a letter gets transformed by you and other speculation here into "IH said the pipe size was DN40".


    I transformed nothing. That is what IH claimed!


    Quote

    And now, it is translated furtehr into some deep deceit from IH -


    Only if it turns out that it wasn't DN40. I've left open the possibility that IH may be vindicated.


    Quote

    when if they had themselves said this it would surely more likely be mistake rather than deceit.


    They did say it! Do you think Darden himself must state it and sign it for it to come from IH? And if IH mis-states something, it is merely a mistake. But no such treatment is afforded Rossi from you.


    Quote

    So it goes. Do you wonder people like me feel it proper to weigh in on the side of IH against this stuff?


    No, I suppose I know the reason.

  • There is nothing wrong chasing women, fishing and drinking beer. And if you believe that it is, you are doing it wrong. The real problem is all the damn regulations.

    -Keep your sense of humor Alan- it works.

  • Exhibit 5 is questions from IH to Rossi/Penon. As far as we know those questions have not been answered. I think that speaks for itself. IH can not be obliged to pay 89 million without getting answers. This is the purpose of exhibit 5.


    But you are trying to make this into something it's not. To your defence you where not the first doing this.


    When IH claime something for a fact it will look different.

  • @DNI


    Exhibit 5 has been the primary attack tool against Rossi. It has been amplified by Jed. If what is stated (not asked) in Exhibit 5 is false, that should be cause for concern. There are questions and there are statements. This is IH's exhibit submitted during the court proceedings. Dewey has been given plenty of opportunities to clarify aspects of it, and has either chosen to remain silent, or has dodged in other ways. If we are now supposed to sort of ignore Exhibit 5 and not give it much weight, based on Dewey's recent minimization of the issues (now apparently "moot"), then why was it heralded from the roof tops for so long? Let's not kid ourselves: this was a coordinated and possibly unfair attack on Rossi. Hopefully we will soon know the extent to which Exhibit 5 misled. And if it turns out that Rossi used DN40 piping, IH will be vindicated. And if it doesn't, the issue is not "moot."

  • Penon was a top honours student, what he has done with his life after leaving university and before meeting Rossi I have zero knowledge about. And neither do you.

    True, but what we know from the court files is the test plan which he developed:
    http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-c…16/10/70-01-Exhibit-1.pdf
    Do you think that this test-plan deserves to be seen as professional work for the verification of a novel, game-changing invention; for a 89 mill $ deal?
    Wouldn't you expect from an expert, that he only uses instruments within their specified operating range, that he provides for (diversified) redundant measurements and so on?
    (Even not asking that he checks for deliberate deception - because that was probably not part of his job)

  • @DNI


    Exhibit 5 has been the primary attack tool against Rossi.


    Well, I can't see that. maybe you are mis-remembering what this is about? We have:

    • No evidence this was the GPT except Rossi telling everyone this.
    • ERV not fit for the job (or under Rossi's thumb) provable from earlier tests
    • No way to dissipate 1MW in that factory
    • Fraudulent misrepresentation of customer, fake business cards, shell companies run by Rossi's lawyer
    • ERV report not fit for purpose
    • measurements in report a joke, contradict Rossi's all-important assumption of 100% phase change

    How can checking the piping on a working system be an attack? If all is good it is easy to answer. Otherwise you should not be on Rossi's side and it is a legitimate concern - whether the piping is to small for the quoted steam rate or no.


    Quote

    It has been amplified by Jed. If what is stated (not asked) in Exhibit 5 is false, that should be cause for concern.


    You have said this before. I doubt anyone else can understand this. These exhibits are IH's required evidence of lines of attack in the Court. This is a particularly easy to answer attack, if the piping is correct there will be evidence (which however Rossi, taking something of a gamble on a summary judgement) seems not to have shown. There are many other aspects of the system that will be similarly so challenged - and should be. That Jed (not IH) states his feelings in a strong way may cause you concern, in which case may I suggest that you are unusually sensitive?


    Suppose you were IH, and innocent, and pretty sure Rossi was faking it. (1) would you have asked Murray to investigate and ask searching questions of Penon? (2) Come the court action would you have submitted the unanswered letter as evidence there was something fishy?


    Quote

    There are questions and there are statements. This is IH's exhibit submitted during the court proceedings.


    Everything depends on context. This letter matters because it shows that IH tried to get clarity about the test setup before the end of the test, and were denied this. The lack of reply, unless Rossi can somehow excuse this, is damning. It has to be submitted because otherwise could not be so later. It is not however the only Court evidence - you may be sure there will be much more.


    Quote

    Dewey has been given plenty of opportunities to clarify aspects of it, and has either chosen to remain silent, or has dodged in other ways.


    IH are engaged in defending what appears to be an extraordinary and unjust claim for a very large amount of money. Why do you view them as nefarious because they keep a professional silence? Their lawyers will be telling them what should be kept for later, and they'd be stupid to disobey that. That is, of course, even if Dewey's inside knowledge includes the things you want to know. I doubt it does.


    Quote

    If we are now supposed to sort of ignore Exhibit 5 and not give it much weight, based on Dewey's recent minimization of the issues (now apparently "moot"), then why was it heralded from the roof tops for so long? Let's not kid ourselves: this was a coordinated and possibly unfair attack on Rossi. Hopefully we will soon know the extent to which Exhibit 5 misled.

    What you do is up to you, and of no effect on the Court process. Exhibit 5 cannot mislead, it was a set of hostile questions showing IH's (and their experts) doubts that remains unanswered.


    Quote

    And if it turns out that Rossi used DN40 piping, IH will be vindicated. And if it doesn't, the issue is not "moot."


    Let us look at this. IH (and their experts) are pretty sure from all the circumstantial evidence that we now know that Rossi's setup is fake. They know Rossi is deceitful and suspect he will pretend this is the GPT since he has been telling everyone that. They have, finally, lost all hope of getting Rossi's stiuff to work themselves - which if they had would allow large amounts of money to be paid anyway and be a happy end for all. They don't know what hard evidence now exists that the setup does not work. Do you expect them to ignore any single possibility? I mean, all it needed was one clarifying reply from Penon to knock this one on the head. And cooperation from Penon - who was supposed to be independent and to ensure fair play - would solve the whole thing.


    There will be many many issues any one of which, if proved, show that Rossi's test was faked. Many of them will not be proved, no doubt. How does that show that IH are in any way acting improperly?

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