Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

    Quote

    JedRothwell wrote:

    They could be the worst thieves in the world, but they still cannot steal the IP by this method. As I said, assuming the gadget works, as soon as they try to sell it,


    The Rossi IP may not be as valuable as is commonly assumed. The Rossi device may be producing huge numbers of subatomic particles, Even the latest theory paper from Rossi suggests that the Rossi reaction is centered on meson creation. Then there is all the open source discussion of the Rossi reactor that has accumulated over the years. And finally, there are the huge volume of past IP that has been included in patent applications, least of which is all the IP claimed by R. Mills.


    Whoever wants to gain control of the Rossi IP has a huge legal hill to climb, even Rossi is faced with unending legal problems.

    Quote

    I don't think that you can say with a 100% certainty that there _never_ was _any_ excess heat.


    You also can't say with certainty that pink invisible flying unicorns PIFU's (™) never produce excess heat. I have some living in my garage which heat my house all winter. That's more probable than what Rossi claims. The reason for that is that if Rossi had any part of what he claims, someone would without a doubt, have picked up on it or properly tested it. It's been what... more than SIX years since the 2011 announcement? It is inconceivable that a viable example of cold fusion/LENR could have been discovered by Rossi and we would be in the current state of development and conflict.


    First, heat sources are not hard to test. You only have to know how which clearly IH, Woodford, the Swedish scientists (AKA The Blind Mice) and Mats Lewan do not.


    Second, one would never expect any discovery like the ecat from Rossi. All he has ever succeeded in is conning and cheating people (Petroldragon, illegal gold trading, tax evasion, environmental disaster, fake diplomas, non-working thermoelectric devices, never a single correct test on the ecats). Or maybe you believe the idiotic claims for the QuarkX are real too? How about all of Rossi's customers for megawatt plants over the years? How about his robotic factories? How about his making cheap isotopes? How about his giveaways of energy in Sweden? And that's just off the top from memory! No, professor herr docktor Rossi is not exactly Nobel laureate material.

    Quote from Shane D.

    Would anyone have a master list of each documents content, so that we can go right to it when referenced? Very tedious to weed through it all.

    ABD has a page with the documents annotated as to their general content. See.


    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…en-docket-and-case-files/


    This takes some time to do, so I would imagine new documents take a while for him to annotate and post. But very nice to have and good of him to do this.:)

    Ah thanks to you I was able to locate the e-mail between APCO and Rossi.

    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…01/0214.30_Exhibit_30.pdf



    Interesting how APCO was giving "mantras" to Rossi.


    Also, the APCO associate director wrote to Rossi: "I spoke with Tom today, and he reported that the 400 day test is about to commence"


    The only other place where I recall a 400 day period to be mentioned is in the licence agreement in relation to the GPT.


    Another clue that Darden considered it as the GPT, IMO.



    Hurrah I'm on a list.

    This is hilarious. But also slightly scary, I have never been on a conspiracy theory list before.

    Not sure what I did, but then it's all in Sifferkoll's mind so WTF.


    I mean any moron can get 2 + 2 = 5.

    Not that I think Sifferkoll is a moron, I just think he has too much imagination and not enough discrimination.


    How about if Sifferkoll is really working for Rossi.

    Or perhaps Sifferkoll really is Rossi.

    Or perhaps Sifferkoll is really working for IH by planting really, really stupid theories to make the Rossi side look bad.


    Imaginary conversation between Darden and APCO.

    Darden "We want to employ your skills."

    APCO "Sure you want to take over some country."

    Darden "No we want you to infiltrate and take over an Internet board."

    APCO "OK so does it have tens of thousands of followers and is it a nexus for opinion formation like Facebook or Twitter?"

    Darden "No it's a small board with maybe a few hundred followers."

    APCO "OK will the members of the trial jury be influenced by this board?"

    Darden "Unlikely they even would know it exists."

    APCO "OK sounds great."


    Meanwhile in the real world, if the IH/APCO team were any good then its not working too well is it?

    On their side they have;

    Dewey - who supposedly can supply some actual inside information, but lately he's been mostly making a bit of a pratt of himself with "Planet Rossi" and "bring it on" and "Rossibots is going to get what is coming in from orbit etc".

    IH not looking too clever with giving Rossi $10 million.

    And worse, rather than keeping it quiet it's all coming out in a public trial.

    And yet Sifferkoll thinks this is all a well managed conspiracy.


    You know of course that Rossi could blow all this "well managed conspiracy" up in the air at any point by actually proving that he has what he says. Wonder why he doesn't do that?


    Ultrasure, any ideas?


    I'm not sure if this is mentioned before but in Document 214 - Exhibit 23 page 8 of the document, Darden says "If Rossi is on track to earn his $89M success fee, then IH may seek up to an additional $150M as early as Q3 " in his "18 Month Business Plan", (7MB file),: http://coldfusioncommunity.net…01/0214.23_Exhibit_23.pdf I cannot find the date that this document was written and so it might actually refer to the GPT.

    Quote from maryyugo

    Second, one would never expect any discovery like the ecat from Rossi. All he has ever succeeded in is conning and cheating people (Petroldragon, illegal gold trading, tax evasion, environmental disaster, fake diplomas, non-working thermoelectric devices, never a single correct test on the ecats). Or maybe you believe the idiotic claims for the QuarkX are real too? How about all of Rossi's customers for megawatt plants over the years? How about his robotic factories? How about his making cheap isotopes? How about his giveaways of energy in Sweden? And that's just off the top from memory! No, professor herr docktor Rossi is not exactly Nobel laureate material.


    Well, I haven't invested any money or much time on any of those projects, so it's no skin off my nose. But as they say, past [non]performance is not an indicator of future [non]results, or, sometimes even a blind chicken finds a seed... (practicing english idioms, hoping they are not totally misused)


    I asked to be removed from this list. Sifferkoll complied but he then said “maybe you’re only victim of FUD spread by Jed and TCHuxley…” It's his blog but I think he has issues.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    I do not agree with you, and neither did I.H. Rossi was the only one who wanted to do a long-term endurance test. I.H. let him do that after they exhausted their own efforts to confirm the heat with their own tests. I think by that time they had little hope it would work -- they talked about a "1% chance."

    So in that case Darden must have told Woodford that they only let Rossi do the test because they had failed in their exhaustive efforts to replicate and this was a Hail Mary with about a 1% chance of succeeding. Oh and would you pretty please give us $50 million?


    Isn't that right? And if he didn't, then clearly he mislead them and the Chinese. Thank you for clarifying this issue for us, Jed, although it was already perfectly clear for anyone with eyes to see and brain to think.

    Quote from PeterMetz

    I'm not sure if this is mentioned before but in Document 214 - Exhibit 23 page 8 of the document, Darden says "If Rossi is on track to earn his $89M success fee, then IH may seek up to an additional $150M as early as Q3 " in his "18 Month Business Plan", (7MB file),: http://coldfusioncommunity.net…01/0214.23_Exhibit_23.pdf I cannot find the date that this document was written and so it might actually refer to the GPT.

    The big problem for IH is that there is tons of written and third party evidence for estoppel and only Darden and Vaughn's word for saying they told Rossi no dice. I think they know that and that's why they're so worried.


    I wonder what the term mantra is meaning here. I have seen in the past where some people stated it was poster names / alias's. However, this email does not contain nor mention any of these. It simply states what to say about plant location (do not say anything) and to call the test


    "As guidance, I think we should call this event "a long term test and continued R&D" This was dated 2/19/2015.


    The dictionary meaning of mantra is "a statement or slogan repeated frequently". So it appears that in this case, it is not email names or poster alias's, but simply an agreed upon description of what the test is to be called and what to say about location.


    The email says nothing about GPT and does state to call the event a long term test and continued R&D. I suppose one can read into it what they want, but in court it be said.... "it was a long term test and continued R&D. Not GPT" :?:


    Also, Mr. McLaughlin used an Apco email. This indeed is some evidence that APCO is involved. But is also could very well be that McLaughlin is involved personally and simply used his business email. It is evidence but not proof.

    Quote from joshg

    The big problem for IH is that there is tons of written and third party evidence for estoppel and only Darden and Vaughn's word for saying they told Rossi no dice. I think they know that and that's why they're so worried.


    Given I don't know the date, it may refer to the GPT as contracted or not. If this was after the GPT "expired" and the author used the term "success fee" I would think it refers to the test as the GPT since it's a fee but that connection is very tenuous IMO. Darden claims in his deposition they told Rossi on more than occasion that the GPT had lapsed but IH would pay Rossi something if he could demonstrate the GPT in some form not strictly according to the License Agreement and this could be a reference to that. Darden, I believe if my memory serves me well, claims in his deposition that IH told Rossi more than once that the GPT had lapsed, including once in a heated meeting. If there is no documents for this it would boil down to testimony by the meeting participants at the trial.

    Quote from PeterMetz

    I asked to be removed from this list. Sifferkoll complied but he then said “maybe you’re only victim of FUD spread by Jed and TCHuxley…” It's his blog but I think he has issues.


    Oh, your post caused me to recheck, and somehow I missed that I made sifferkoll's list of co-conspirators too! Well, another res ipsa loquitur.


    As Shane D. observed, if conspiracy theories are your game, sikkerfool sifferkoll's the name.

    Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

    Quote from PeterMetz

    no documents for this it would boil down to testimony

    It needs to be remembered, that the GPT had to have Ampenergo sign. Darden could not verbally create the GPT by himself anyway, even if he wanted to.

    The GPT (2nd license agreement) stated it was to be the six unit design, which it was not, and it had to have Ampenergo sign off on it.


    So it does not really boil down to testimony. Darden could not create the GPT by himself. Rossi could not create the GPT by himself. It was in clear, legal contract that the GPT was for the 6 unit plant and that all three parties had to sign off on it. They did not.


    "No Other Chances. Except as expressly provided herein,, the Agreement remains in

    full force and effect and is ratified and confirmed by the parties to this Amendment."


    http://coldfusioncommunity.net…01/0207.15_Exhibit_15.pdf


    I'm not a lawyer but I was going on the understanding that estoppel would allow for the GPT under a different form and time frame despite all the issues you point out. What you say regarding contracts etc makes the most sense to me but Rossi is making the claim that it was the GPT despite the obvious contractual contradictions so maybe there is a legal basis for this?


    If I reply to you with any substance it might confirm our conspiracy so I'll say nothing.

    Are you guys talking about these "terms of agreement with IH" in this May-September 2014 1MW 350-days thing mentioned by Vaughn in 214-25 - Exhibit 25? Are the terms documented somewhere? (sorry if this was linked earlier)

    ------------------------------------

    From: JTVaughn <--->
    Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:06 PM
    To: John Mazzarino; Tom Darden
    Subject: 1H Timeline ——
    please help fill—in / edit as necessary
    [...]
    2014
    May - September: Rossi begins working on the 1 MW unit to prepare it to operate on a continuous basis for
    350-days, per the terms of the agreement with IH. [...]

    ----------------------------------------

    Edited once, last by Pjotr: (ocr/typing errors) ().

    Quote from PeterMetz

    I was going on the understanding that estoppel would allow for the GPT

    I am not a lawyer either, so I am speculating here about as much as I would be on deep mathematical equations!


    However I think, that you would be correct if the contract was only between Darden and Rossi, and Darden led Rossi to believe the test was the GPT, that Rossi could possibly claim estoppel. But the contract clearly states three parties are involved and that all must sign off. So I do not believe estoppel can be claimed unless both Dardin / IH AND Ampenergo were both culpable in leading Rossi to believe it was the GPT. We have seen absolute no evidence that Ampenergo did this and only interpretive evidence about Darden.


    I am not a lawyer, but from what I understand, this is a show stopper for Rossi. I do not think he can claim that any impressions from Darden override the contract's explicit requirement that Ampenergo sign off as well. They did not. In reverse, since Leonardo Corp. was one of the parties to the contract, Rossi cannot simply "make it the test the GPT" without Ampenergo's sign off either. It works both ways, if I understand correctly.

    Quote from Bob

    I am not a lawyer either, so I am speculating here about as much as I would be on deep mathematical equations!


    However I think, that you would be correct if the contract was only between Darden and Rossi, and Darden led Rossi to believe the test was the GPT, that Rossi could possibly claim estoppel. But the contract clearly states three parties are involved and that all must sign off. So I do not believe estoppel can be claimed unless both Dardin / IH AND Ampenergo were both culpable in leading Rossi to believe it was the GPT. We have seen absolute no evidence that Ampenergo did this and only interpretive evidence about Darden.


    I am not a lawyer, but from what I understand, this is a show stopper for Rossi. I do not think he can claim that any impressions from Darden override the contract's explicit requirement that Ampenergo sign off as well. They did not. In reverse, since Leonardo Corp. was one of the parties to the contract, Rossi cannot simply "make it the test the GPT" without Ampenergo's sign off either. It works both ways, if I understand correctly.


    To be honest I don't even understand "estoppel" other than the basic concept. The Wikipedia page is quite involved. My question is why then hasn't the courts ruled out Rossi's claim that it was the GPT? If it were so cut and dry this would have happened by now I would think. Maybe because almost $300M is riding on this and the lawyers haven't gotten their share yet?

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