Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]


    COMPLETE NONSENSE. Winners: attorneys (BIG TIME!)


    Yes. And that was avoidable.

    Something worth (IMO) keeping in mind:

    Medical doctors can be split into two very broad groups: the primary care docs and the cutters. Cutters are bad news. They're expensive, and they will hurt you. They are fixing you (hopefully) in the process, but they're still going to be inflicting pain on you and they're still going to be making you pay dearly for that privilege. But if you go to your primary care doctor on a regular basis and do what the primary care doc tells you to do, you can often postpone, reduce, or eliminate the need for the cutter.

    Lawyers can also be split into two very broad groups: the transactional lawyers and the litigators. (See where I'm going with this?)

    To a certain extent, this case might have been unavoidable. But there's a good chance that more time, care, and thought at the contract drafting stage, and during the contract performance, would have saved everyone a great deal of time and money during this suit.

    1 Cranch 137, 177

    Edited once, last by MikeDunford: Stuffs I thought was in there wasn't. ().

  • Not surprised.
    Winners: Attorneys

    Florida Court (wasted time).


    LENR (Delays, Increased skeptism)

    IH or Rossi won? Couldn't care less who paid who, hope it was fair deal though.

    Engineer Rossi better to bring his blinking-ant to table for independent testing or shut up for good.

    Have a nice summer :)

  • notice they settled after IH's opening arguments, not after Rossi's. That says a lot.

    I suspect that the timing had more to do with the break for the weekend than anything else. Opening statements on Friday let everyone walk to the edge of the cliff. Then they got to stand there, wiggling their toes over the edge and looking down, for four days deciding just how badly they wanted to test the stretch on those suspiciously-thin looking bungee cords.

    1 Cranch 137, 177

  • [...]

    AndreaS. do not insult USA Juridical System. Is much better and faster then Italian one. In Italy a trial like that one would take about 20 years and parts that are weaker are never protected. You are not understanding the fact on my opinion. And in that case there was no obvious conclusion.

    You sound familiar with the Italian judicial system. I agree it's no better.

    But sincerely, congratulations. Perfect strategy. La miglior difesa è l'attacco.

    And although a fair conclusion would have been Rossi giving back most of the money (not all - he has spent time and money in genuinely trying to make a miracle happen, at least in the spare time left from his "design of experiment" activity), I have no sympathy for IH. So be it if they lost 11M plus whatever (I said my guess already).

  • Quote

    To a certain extent, this case might have been unavoidable.

    Yup. Unavoidable to the extent that Rossi is a complete whackjob as well as a con man.

    Even funnier are those who think we're now going to be treated to robotic factories in Sweden, thousands of megawatt plants and of course, the inimitable QuarkX's magical properties (ROTWFL).


    QuarkX Demo up next.

    The QuarkX is a small device the size of a pencil or thereabouts, which Rossi claims produces 20 Watts of either heat, light or electricity. Your choice, I guess. It's hard for me to see any way that Rossi has managed to fool a single person with this idiotic fantasy. But he has and that speaks to the intellect and education of those who are getting fooled... after all these years and all the lies.

  • I see no problem for the Rossi believers to be convinced that Rossi must have got at least 89 millions in the settlement.

    They may well believe that. But, Abd expanded his blog entry, adding some details and some of his own impressions. He thinks that Darden was sanguine. I do not think Darden would be sanguine if he had just agreed to pay $89 million! I hope he did not pay anything.

    The blog is here:

    Let me speculate here. Perhaps I.H. dropped the counter-suit because they decided it would be difficult to make Rossi pay up even if they win.

  • Quote

    I suspect that the timing had more to do with the break for the weekend than anything else. Opening statements on Friday let everyone walk to the edge of the cliff. Then they got to stand there, wiggling their toes over the edge and looking down, for four days deciding just how badly they wanted to test the stretch on those suspiciously-thin looking bungee cords.

    Extremely well put. My theory about IH is that they could not take the chance that a lay jury would believe Rossi and his witnesses sufficiently to think that the contract conditions had been met, quite apart from whether or not Rossi was honest. Too bad. But no worries. Rossi is likely to step on his own feces once more soon, one way or another. He's done it all his life. He'll do it again unless he's just too old.


    1 Cranch 137, 177

    What in the world does THAT mean, Mike?

  • It appears that the E-Cat world crowd is mostly ecstatic. And I'm sure that Frank A. is smiling ear to ear.

    And who can blame them? Now that Rossi is no longer involved in the trial, he can quickly achieve Quark-X sigma 5 (and to infinity and beyond), demonstrate his success before year end (as per his JONP posted 'hope'), manufacture with his latest Jim Bass-engineered Beagle Bone robotic factory in legally-unfettered Europe, make billions of dollars in license fees and product sales, get his Nobel prize, all while donating millions to children's cancer research, and ultimately ushering in a radical new energy economy with unimaginable improvement of quality of life for all humans on the planet. And IH can't do anything to stop him.

    And furthermore, all those nasty paid IH FUDers posting on LENR-Forum have egg on their face and will have to eat crow.

    That is, once Rossi delivers something. Anything? (other than more Florida condos or conspiracy theories explaining why despite heroic efforts, he has been unjustly thwarted by sinister forces)










  • In another rare point of agreement, IHFB and I did not want a settlement because we (and many others) wanted to see the details, no matter how gory, that would come out publicly in trial.

    Surely you have all the information you can stand in the docket and case files!…en-docket-and-case-files/

    I only read a few of the technical documents, but even that was more than I ever wanted to know about Rossi. Yikes, what a stinker he is!

    I worried about the nightmare scenario that Rossi's lawyers would persuade a gullible jury to award Rossi millions of dollars. I worried about that because so many people here are in thrall of Rossi, rendered incapable of doing elementary science.

    Deceptions about the fake company are mere icing on the cake compared to the technical reports from Penon, Murray and Smith. Those were the nails in the coffin. No one should believe any claim from Rossi after reading them. (I suppose this is why people such as Axil deliberately refrained from reading them.)

    Looking back at this fiasco, I have less confidence in the ability of educated people to do basic science than I used to.


    1 Cranch 137, 177

    What in the world does THAT mean, Mike?


    tl:dr - it's a short version of the legal citation for one of the fundamental statements in American constitutional law: "It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. "

    Long version:

    If I'm honest, it means I was being a bit of a dick when I set up the account, and I've been too lazy to change it since. When I signed up here, I did not know that abd had moved on from here, and he and I had just had a bit of a frank exchange of views on a couple of things at a different forum. Along the way, he commented on the smugness and insiderness of the sig (while not actually being able to identify the quote). There was a spot to put a sig in the profile when I was getting things set up, so I decided I'd just stick with the same sig instead of doing what I usually do and thumbing through the Terry Pratchett novel closest to hand until I find an appropriate quote.

    1 Cranch 137, 177

  • My guess is that Rossi will now start claiming all kinds of things about the settlement that are not true even though the settlement was to be confidential. He knows that there will be no record to catch him in his falsehoods about the settlement.

    Well, to paraphrase Mike D, the terms of the settlement are confidential, unless one side blows up the confidentiality (or otherwise breaches the settlement agreement). If Rossi starts bragging about what the settlement agreement provides, regardless of whether or not his statements relating thereto are true or false, he may waive the confidentiality provision and IH could decide to publish the whole thing and take their chances that Rossi sues them, again.

    If there is such a suit, IT WILL, AS THIS ONE WAS, NOT BE ABOUT LENR. It will simply be a contract dispute. Did one party's violation of a confidentiality provision release the other party from any confidentiality obligations. So, e.g., if Rossi decides to represent to potential new investors that IH relinquished all North American rights to the e-cat (unless such disclosure was carved out in the settlement agreement and regardless of whether or not such an assertion is true), IH could say that Rossi has breached confidentiality and therefore IH is not bound to confidentiality either. I bring this up specifically because Rossi boasted in the past how he deliberately blew up an agreement with a prior investor/partner. IMHO, Rossi can't keep his mouth shut.

    As to speculation as to other terms of the settlement, as I said was potentially possible (but later than the winner of the sweepstakes and I waive any claims I might have to any quatloos in connection therewith), I would suspect mutual walk-aways. I doubt that any serious money changed hands from IH to Rossi and I very much doubt that IH is picking up any portion of Rossi's legal or other fees. If anything, I suspect, and again pure speculation, that IH continues to have the same IP rights it previously had (and possibly North American rights to anything Rossi may develop in the future) (it would be interesting to check the real property records in Florida in a month or so to see if there are any changes to the title of the condos Rossi is reported to have purchased there with the initial money from IH).

    As to what prompted the settlement, it could have been just each side realizing that spending additional money wasn't cost effective, especially if the other side was essentially judgment proof (pure speculation on my part), although I do suspect that Rossi's lawyers could have realized that they had no case on the principal complaint and so advised Rossi (again, speculation on my part - we will have to wait for their memoirs). Contra one poster above, I do think that the issues relating to the fake company, the fake invoices and the other items referenced by Jones Day in their opening statement might have made an impact on Rossi's lawyers, albeit late in the game. I.e., the heat exchanger and the piping were relevant. Similarly, Jones Day could have advised IH that a win on the counter-claim was less certain, that even if IH won on the counter-claim any monetary recovery would be limited and that a settlement whereby IH doesn't pay Rossi any money on the principal complaint was a reasonable settlement. "Better a bird in the hand than two in the bush."

    As to reputational damage, IH and its investors will always be able to partner with LENR developers so long as IH and its investors have money. I hope that they do better due diligence next time and DRAFT A BETTER AGREEMENT (I very very very much doubt that Jones Day Reavis Pogue & Satan were involved in drafting the ones IH signed with Rossi).

    As to Rossi, he and his supporters will spin this as a great win (despite the fact that having an absolutely brilliant working device and having a slam dunk winning case, he walked away from $89 million), but I do think he will have a harder time finding serious money to invest in him and, as an added bonus, any serious investor will insist on true independent examination and verification before investing. As others have pointed out above, why did/would Rossi settle if his device really was a winner.

    As others have pointed out above, all of the evidence that was publicly disclosed, and which remains public and not subject to any confidentiality provisions, shows Rossi to be a serial fabulist and faker. He has been publicly shown to have created a fake company and to have faked invoices. That is public and I think it will be much more difficult for him to spin that to potential investors.

    I think another result of this whole shit-fest is that, along with it being much more difficult for Rossi to raise serious money, it will result in Rossi announcing bigger, better, greater and more astounding devices, inventions and discoveries, all of which will be incapable of being independently examined or verified (such failure of course will be the result of interference and manipulations by a nefarious anti-LENR and anti-Rossi cabal who are only interested in maintaining humanity's subjugation by the existing energy cartels and THE MAN and who are afraid of Rossi, his brilliance and his inventions).

  • Follow the money...

    Winners: lawyers

    Losers: Woodford shareholders

    As it happens, my stake in Woodford Patient Capital trust took a sudden uptick in value at about the time the settlement was announced. I only wish all my investments had performed as well over that timescale (I was clever lucky enough to buy at about the lowest price it's ever been)

    My take is that there will be a number of shareholders heaving sighs of relief that it's all over, and even topping up because the trust is selling at a 4.5% discount to its asset value; and the future of the trust is in no way dependent on the worth or lack of worth of the ecat. Woodford's chaps always said that the investment was for the generality of potentially disruptive energy technologies - not just for Rossi's box of tricks

  • Hey, Mike and Woodworker... Abd said the case was probably settled "with prejudice"... does that concept even apply to civil actions? Can't IH and Rossi resurrect either lawsuit in the future if they choose?

    And something I'd like to know: do the depositions and other exhibits on line remain public record? And if someone knows, do they remain on line?

  • Quote

    Woodford's chaps always said that the investment was for the generality of potentially disruptive energy technologies - not just for Rossi's box of tricks

    What the Rossi case proves about Woodford is that they don't properly vet and investigate sizable new investments, even in very controversial areas and even when there is considerable, credible, high quality negative information on the internet with regard to the investment. Can they still make money? Sure. But I'd avoid investing in them because their methodology is so piss poor.

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