The Great 'Believer' Witch Hunt

  • The evidence suggests that Rossi went from one carefully designed method of ecat fraud to another and tested each one ahead of time to make sure it would fool the marks.

    The last one he made, for the 1-year test, was a mess. It did not fool anyone. He signed an agreement with I.H. to set up certain instruments in certain ways, and then he violated that agreement. They were upset.


    I cannot imagine the Penon report would fool anyone other than people on Planet Rossi who believe anything he says. Rossi himself admitted it was nonsense when he made up new lies about the invisible mezzanine heat exchanger.

  • Neither of you have proved my statement wrong, but I'm not going to waste time debating how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.

    Adrian

    I am not trying to prove your wrong. Merely juggling different perspectives. Don't you like to do that, it is very enlightening.

    In fact I cannot prove you wrong because your statement is correct. Just as mine is.

    But I submit that more people that started off thinking that Rossi was real have changed to the view he is a fake than the other way around.

    This means that the "Rossi is real" group is shrinking whereas the Rossi is fake group is increasing.

    People who think Rossi is fake are not welcome on E-Cat World, so where do you think they might go?

    This site is of course biased, according to its membership, but then so is E-Cat World. Which biase do you prefer Adrian?

    Of course if Rossi starts selling real, working E-cats then your are right and I am wrong.

    If he doesn't then I suppose it never proves anything. So you have the safer position.

    How long can you hold your breath?

  • When I see that extraordinary claims such as those I quoted in the celani thread are ignored by mainstream science and I see Celani's funding zeroed by INFN, I am inclined to think that his peers have identified flaws (even though they may have not engaged in a public critique).


    AS,


    Did he end up losing the funding? I remember the head of his department trying to defund him, but Celani made an appeal to a politician I think, to keep it going. Never heard anything after that. Celani still is very active and works with a team, so I guessed he had won the funding battle.


    Celani is very honest. When he makes a mistake like he did at NI LENR, he admits it and moves on. In his ICCF20 presentation he laid everything on the line, and does not appear to care about making money...only making LENR reliable and scaleable. It would have been nice had he explained why SKINR (ICCF18) was unable to replicate though.

  • I suppose you think the convenient disappearance of Rossi original factory heater supposedly from 2007 and the inability to produce the thermoelectric efficient prototype were also self-deception? Maybe the fire that destroyed all his records of thermoelectric development was self deception? Levi's unwillingness to repeat his experiment on the most powerful and efficient ecat EVER was self delusion also?

    Mary your mind is in a confused state. The original heater of 2007 (10 years ago!) was a first prototype, quite obvious that was dismantled, no fire has ever destroyed any records, Levi has done measurements over many prototypes and never refused to do one.


    Mary. Is so clear from what you write here and all what you have written around in the net that or you have an agenda, or you have some sanity problems or maybe both !


    I don't think that any real information apart your angry and bitterness can be seen in your posts.


    Fixed an attempt at doxxing. Eric

  • AS,


    Did he end up losing the funding? I remember the head of his department trying to defund him, but Celani made an appeal to a politician I think, to keep it going. Never heard anything after that. Celani still is very active and works with a team, so I guessed he had won the funding battle.


    Celani is very honest. When he makes a mistake like he did at NI LENR, he admits it and moves on. In his ICCF20 presentation he laid everything on the line, and does not appear to care about making money...only making LENR reliable and scaleable. It would have been nice had he explained why SKINR (ICCF18) was unable to replicate though.


    I have no reason to think he is dishonest and I share your impression of a person without personal greed. As usual I fear however confirmation bias, and the tendency to publish anecdotic positive findings and to insufficiently report on the many nulls.


    I don't really know how the funding story ended but he himself mentions a severe budget cut in 2013 in the paper published in Asti*.


    [Edit: * page 36 in this link


    Celani F., Spallone A., et al. Observation of Macroscopic Current and Thermal Anomalies, at High Temperature, by Hetero-structures in Thin and Long Constantan Wires Under H2 Gas, J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 19, (2016), p 29 www.iscmns.org/CMNS/JCMNS-Vol19.pdf




  • I am not trying to prove your wrong. Merely juggling different perspectives. Don't you like to do that, it is very enlightening.

    You misunderstand my position. I don't think there is PROOF that the 1 MW plant worked or didn't work. Presumably IH is not certain either or they would have pursued the court case.


    Without hearing the explanations for the problems in the ERV's report, that Jed and others have brought up, people here, remote from the operation, can't really know. Not that it stops them from writing >330 pages of speculation on the prior thread.

  • As always, thank you AS. I was not trying to imply you thought Celani was dishonest...only attempting to give some background information for those unfamiliar with his story.


    Anyways, Celani does read, and post on LF at times...

  • I could only cast two votes. (No big deal but . . .)


    Sorry thought you'd voted already! I turned it back down so not to mess up the statistics, although the forum software is pretty good and adjusts the percentage to >100%. Thought two was a good compromise after seeing THH's comment.


    I would say there were more people who had made up their minds Rossi was a scam artist on this forum, prior to waiting for solid proof.


    Proof is an odd concept best limited to mathematics IMO. Most of the time there's only 'evidence', and people ascribe different weights to that. What you might see as weak evidence, I might see as proof, and change my opinion from 'undecided' to 'that's bullshit'.

  • "Witch hunt" - I don't think there is any witch hunt agains LENR believers on this forum.


    Maybe I'm trying to start one?



    Seriously?


    Still not voted yet then, Mary? I knew I should have replaced the word 'cretin' with the word 'moron', which in fairness... you do seem to prefer.


    Anyway enough about Rossi's misplaced genius and exotic particles, please. This was supposed to be a thread where we could pontificate about such high and mighty topics as the nature of belief, and the paradoxes of objective epistemology. Or something. Where's Lomax when you need him?


    At least Eric and THH had some interesting stuff to say, but it's getting late...

  • ele



    Quote

    Mary your mind is in a confused state. .. no fire has ever destroyed any records,


    ROTFWL! "ele" think's I AM CONFUSED?


    This is the Rossi version of the fire as told to his victim (to the tune of around $5M) DOD/CERL ... Rossifiction, as I call it.


    Of course the reason the delivered devices did not work was not limited to mechanical failure and poor worksmanship. It was because the prototype never existed. It is doubtful that the "location" destroyed by fire existed and it is virtually certain that nothing was ever tested at the University of New Hampshire. It was the usual fabric of Rossi lies and cons and fraud. The above quote is from the actual DOD report conveniently preserved here:


    http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…ThermoelectricDevices.pdf


    Quote

    The original heater of 2007 (10 years ago!) was a first prototype, quite obvious that was dismantled,

    Only in the world of scammers (and actually it is a hallmark of energy scams) do people dismantle incredibly effective prototype and then make inferior ones, both as to power and also as to "COP". This decrease in performance with time is another hallmark of free energy scams and Rossi's 20W QuarkX fits perfectly into the pattern. Rossi's Levi-tested early ecat made a peak power of 135kW from a device the size of a tennis ball with COP's around 20 -30. Later models made around 5kW with COP's of 6. The so-called hot cat made around 3kW with a claimed COP of less than three (it is probably 1.0 as per Clarke and TTH and others). That's progress, folks! Rossistyle.


    Hilariously, some of Sterling Allan's scammers used to claim that they had to delay demos because they had taken apart perfectly working examples of their machines so they could afford to build a newer model ROTFWL!


    Quote

    Levi has done measurements over many prototypes and never refused to do one.

    Levi's best experiment ever, which you and many believers either choose to ignore or are ignorant about was the one he reported in 2011 in NyTeknik. Of course there was no calibration and no adequate documentation of what Levi actually did. Anyway, a couple of years ago, I contacted Nobel laureate and LENR believer Professor Brian Josephson through his Youtube channel. While I disagree with Dr. Josephson about many things, he is always polite and kind to a fault-- a real gentleman. He replied to my request and originated a PERSONAL email to Levi asking that the data be made available for that spectacular test and that Levi repeat it under proper controlled conditions and observation. LEVI DID NOT EVEN GIVE JOSEPHSON THE COURTESY OF A REPLY. Josephson finally wrote me: "I suggest you email him yourself." ROTFWL again. Like Levi wouldn't respond to josephson but he'd respond to me1 Anyway Levi's sort of a schlump about all that stuff like controls and calibrations but I hear he does make a mean cup of coffee.


    @Admins I wish you had not suspended ele because he or she won't be able to respond to this and may never even see it. Be that as it may, it is a waste of time to communicate with this person as well as with Zeus so I probably won't do much of it in the future, regardless of how outrageously they write.