Mary, you don’t need to repeat all of Jed’s laughable pronouncements about Rossi. Just pick one and repeat it endlessly every time he says anything. That is what he would do.
ICCF-20 Papers Uploaded.
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... when it comes to LENR. So far, it's mostly promises and claims by the usual suspects.
But how would you know, Mary? - Is that something else you intuited by reading Tanzella's bibliography?
By your own admission you are unqualified to evaluate such things:
As I said before, I have no interest in claims for small, low level, low power LENR effects. I know nothing about those, I care little about them, and I don't evaluate them. So what?
I know nothing about Pd-D or electrolytic systems, I don't pretend to know about them, I don't comment about them, and I have said that many times.
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If current LENR work were really promising, the wealthiest entrepreneurs would be all over it and it doesn't seem they are very muchly. That isn't an evaluation of data and requires only a modicum of insight.
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With oil and gas prices low there is little incentive for investment in LENR.
Perhaps juicers are sweeter.
How to disintegrate a cool $120 million.
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Perhaps juicers are sweeter.
How to disintegrate a cool $120 million.
Nice one. Juicers are proven tech like solar, e-cars etc. I was surprised that pathosceptics like MY don't see the log in the eye and make such wide generalisations.
I guess there is a confusion between a rare smart rich guy investor (sorry can not name even one all that come to mind are plain good salesman) and big balls traditional capitalist.
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If current LENR work were really promising, the wealthiest entrepreneurs would be all over it
Seems you have not been paying attention Mary.
As per usual.
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Quote
With oil and gas prices low there is little incentive for investment in LENR.
Seriously? So in your view, an adequate room heater or even a primitive steam engine boiler, which produces a few kW for years from a thimble full of hydrogen and a smidgen of nickel wouldn't have a market? In the third world but in ANY world? What incredible nonsense.
Failure to appreciate the consequences and seriousness of a claim is a HALLMARK of people who believe free energy scams of all sorts. If those scams were true, they would be raving successes and their developers would be zillionaires. And instead, we get mostly the sounds of crikets in the night. Talk about "inconvenient facts!"
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A few truths..some inconvenient. from McKubre in the 2nd ICCF20 paper
(1) Collectively we have the answer, individually none of us does! We have to stop trying to be heroes and begin
playing together as a team. I continue to believe that this is a game worth winning – and that it can be won -
and that we can do this if we change the way we approach the solution. I have contributed 27 years to this task
– I can give a few more – so long as I see a reasonable trajectory towards resolution.
(2) As a community and individually, we did not pay sufficient attention to the significance of the work of others.
Personally, I took a long time to be persuaded by the evidence of: Heat; Tritium; Helium – and only came to
accept these as real when I saw evidence with my own eyes and under my experimental control. For whatever
reasons, these evidences now fail to persuade, and fresh replications of the best experiments are necessary. We
must do the work ourselves.
(3) We need fresh data. We cannot keep pointing out 20-year-old results as the best evidence of an effect.
(4) As a consequence we have limited shared experience. We have not paid sufficient attention to the teaching that
does exist, and there exists no consensus around an agreed set of facts. Everyone has a different set of facts.
Everyone is taking their own journey. We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, we are standing shoulder
to shoulder in the (metaphorical) muck, diving for (real) coins.
(5) The giants that I spoke of before started the job, but they did not complete it. If the likes of: Martin Fleischmann;
John Bockris; FritzWill; Giuliano Preparata; Andrei Lipson, Julian Schwinger – the best I ever knew
– could not complete the task that Martin set us, what hope do we have working alone? We must work together!
(6) Despite the negativity expressed both inside and outside our community, there is intense and increasing interest
in our field. With the “statute of limitations” expiring on our “glorious transgression” of questioning “established
expectation” 27 years ago – talented, young, fresh thinking, imaginative and energetic researchers are
entering the field in significant numbers. 30 year-olds do not care what happened 27 years ago – 40 year-olds
do not either. These people are our future. Let them learn and do, and watch and help them win.
(7) Our field is not limited by money or constrained by government. Essentially every successful businessman and
entrepreneur on the planet is aware that securing a benign primary energy source that is unlimited in power
(supply), energy (duration) and availability (location) – is one of the greatest existential planetary questions
over which we have any control. Many or most are keen to help. Our job is to make it easy for them. “Fund
me and my idea” is not helping them or us.
(8) The results we are seeking will benefit all mankind. Likewise the team of talent and consensus needs also
to be multi-national. The host nations of ICCF-20 and its satellite, Japan and China, have made significant
and conspicuous progress towards fulfilling the potential of Martin’s dream, for which we are all extremely
grateful. So have the Europeans (especially Russia, Italy, France), and the North Americans (particularly the
USA). These groups and nations need to continue to work together – perhaps even better – and we need to
expand “the club”.
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Great quote
It remind me the DoD comment about LENR being TRL1 but players fighting as if LENR was TRL8.
I take two points :
- the problem is not technical
- the problem is not outside
sure, the technical challenge are great, but there are more difficult subject than finding how LENR works (accumulators, darkmatter, TEG, HTSC).
Sure LENR is fought hard by academic supported by media minions, but it would be easier if the community, scientists and supporters, did not play fool, play selfish, and support clowns. If you see scientific disruption of older time, you see it was fought as strongly, as dishonestly...
McKubre is more kind than me.
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Give me a break. Do I have to recycle AGAIN all of Jed Rothwell's pronouncements about how credible Rossi's claims were because of such things as prime principles?
Only if you mention all the times I said I would not trust Rossi far enough to throw him, and that any legitimate businessman would run from the room hearing what he had to say. I said that repeatedly, from day one.
And he actually loaned money to Defkalion!
I never loaded them money. I bought a non-refundable air ticket. They cancelled the trip and promised to refund it. It was around $1,200 as I recall. I might have used it for some other trip before it expired, but converting it cost more than the airfare. (Because everyplace I wanted to go was close by and cheap. It might have been worth converting for a trip to Japan or Europe.)
Rothwell is a fine one to critique my baloney detector.
If I were to make a mistake by a factor of 1,800, I would admit it. You don't even realize you have made mistakes on that scale.
You claim that techniques invented by J. P. Joule in 1840 are not reliable. You think phase change calorimetry does not work.
You believe Shahanan's claims that he found a "DOE website about swimming pools" that proves a bucket of water will evaporate overnight at room temperature. You believe his claim that a large metal object that remains hot for days is "not a heater" and it is wishful thinking to say it is. This is crackpot woowoo, but you are blind to it.
You have no baloney detector. You don't know baloney when it bites you on the butt.
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Rossi mentions at ICCF20 are few, mostly from Zelensky.
ICCF21 may have even fewer.
Opening
address
I would say this is triggered by Rossi, although the evaluation of his device is quite uncertain now.
Jorohta Kasagi
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Prof. Sergio Focardi and Andrea Rossi.
Their impressive and revolutionary “energy catalyzer” (or “E-Cat”) seems capable of reliable generation of thermal energy at kilowatt levels for many months!
Celani et al
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creation of controlled nuclear fusion reactors (“thermonuclearfusion” [1]), and creation of cold fusion reactors (HTE-Cat, “Rossi reactor”) [3,4].
V.F. Zelensky
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The E-Cat reactor presentation was held by S. Focardi and A. Rossi in March 2011 in Italy [3]. Since then work of “Rossi reactor” “cell” has already been successfully reproduced in a number ofcountries (Russia, China, Kazakhstan, etc.) [10].
V.F. Zelensky
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This is the main reason for the high intensity of the fusion processes in the “Rossi reactor” and in the experimental source of chemonuclear HD-fusion created in the present work.
V.F. Zelensky
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Presentation of this reactor was made by Focardi
and Rossi in March 2011 in Italy. In subsequent in the USA, where Rossi has transferred the research, on the same principle a more effective generator HTE-Cat with operating temperature 1000–1200◦C has been created that gives a possibility of its usage in superheated steam production (600◦C) for turbines of a modern power plant.
Rossi in an interview with “The Huffington Post” in October, 2015, declared that Leonardo Technologies Inc. already has orders to manufacture of 600,000 generators of a different power levels for the total of three billion USdollars, from Europe, the USA and other parts of the world. This year he planned to begin commercial production of the generators (including major units of 1 MW capacity). Unfortunately, very little data about the construction of these reactors and the composition of the fuel has been published.
V.F. Zelensky
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. Such a result, according to the authors, makes the “Rossi effect” an ideal phenomenon for nuclear energy utilization with a total absence of radioactive materials and radiation.
V.F. Zelensky
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Thus, the chemonuclear fusion hypothesis well describes a fuel cycle and nuclear processes of “Rossi reactor” provided that as the nucleus initiating fusion process in this case the 7Li-nucleus serves.
V.F. Zelensky
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which seemingly show considerable reproducibility of the Rossi method. However, little is known about the accuracy of the calorimetry or the mechanism of the claimed anomalously large energy production.
Meulenberg et Paillet
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For once, I agree with most of bocijn's cite of McKubre's "inconvenient" stuff. However in another post, the cites from Zelenski regarding Rossi and Focardi from are complete unqualified nonsense. They disregard the facts and the author obviously made no review of the depositions in the Rossi vs IH legal case and also does not understand Rossi's dismal history. As for ICCF21, it will be a pity and a wasted opportunity if it does not have extensive coverage of the Rossi and Defkalion scams and of Rossi's well known past history. Krivit would be an ideal presenter. The field needs to learn from him. And they need to hold Miley, Swartz, Dennis and his balls, and several others to account for unrealized promises of performance. So far, Mizuno is included in that. When will this field grow up and become a real scientific research area instead of a ripe and fertile opportunity for scams and grandstanding?
As for Rothwell's post, thanks for the correction about Defkalion. For the rest, it's the usual combination of misquotes and deliberate misconscrewing of what was written. He always does that. Rossi had him by the short hairs for almost five years before he finally saw the light and he knows it.
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Rossi had him by the short hairs for almost five years before he finally saw the light and he knows it.
In what sense? What did he get from me? Publicly I repeated many times that he refused to let me bring instruments to a demonstration, so I refused to go. I said that any businessman would find him suspicious. I reported that his first megawatt demonstration in Italy was useless. I reported that he almost blew up the people from NASA, and then he threw them out. As soon as I.H. sent me data, I reported on it here and elsewhere, describing it as either terrible or fraudulent. (I could not tell at that stage.)
When have I covered up for him, or done him any favors?
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" the author obviously made no review of the depositions in the Rossi vs IH legal case"
VF Zelensky was in no condition to review any depositions. I don't think he attended ICCF 20 in Oct ,2016 ?
He died at the age of 88 in the Ukraine in March,2017
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https://fotki.yandex.ru/users/…enadi/album/228394/?&p=14 In this album all participants of ICCF 20 in Sendai, Japan... Look here. I saw Zelensky on ICCF 19 in Padua in 2015 https://fotki.yandex.ru/users/tarasenko-genadi/album/221029/
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Shanahan's alterego wrote "unrealized promises of performance. So far, Mizuno is included in that"
" it's the usual combination of misquotes and deliberate misconscrewing "
Mizuno has written a book " Nuclear Transmutation: The Reality of Cold Fusion".
lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTnucleartra.pdf
I am sure it has HOPE but not promises.
His latest paper available as a preprint on this thread does not promise any performance
"When the temperature of the reactor (Tr) is expressed as the reciprocal of the absolute temperature, as shown in Fig. 40, the excess heat relationship is linear.
We speculate that the excess heat would reach the order of kilowatts at 1/Tr = 0.001, i.e., at Tr approximately 700°C. "
Mizuno' abstract exhibits expectation based on extrapolation ..not promise.
"When the reactor temperature is 300°C, the generated energy is 1 kW.
An increase of the temperature is expected to greatly increase the output energy."
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@Rothwell
I've quoted your support for and protestation of belief in Rossi innumerable times with chapter, verse, and links and what I cited was only a fraction of what there is for anyone to see on the internet. I am not relitigating that now! Does the phrase "on prime (or first, forget which) principles" ring a bell?
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JedRothwell wrote
"Park's column at the APS was called "What's New." Gene Mallove said he should have called it: "What's New that I hate."People like you and Park are afraid of novelty, change, and not knowing things"
In contrast to this frog-in-a-well attitude is the attitude of Mizuno . Thanks for the translation, Jed.
The book is available on Kindle for only $8 now.
https://www.amazon.com/Nuclear…sion-ebook/dp/B071Y45BGZ/
The reality of cold fusion is indeed " The road to conclusive results is arduous and many hardships must be faced along the way"
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I've quoted your support for and protestation of belief in Rossi innumerable times with chapter, verse, and links and what I cited
Did you also quote my attacks on him? Such as many times I reported that he invited me and then univited me? Or the times I said that he almost blew up the people from NASA? Did you mention that I panned the Italian 1 MW demo?
If you report only the positive comments I made, and leave out the negative ones, that is highly biased. That would be a distorted, one-sided account. It would be like quoting WWII U.S. admirals who expressed admiration for the skill of the Japanese navy at the battle of Midway without mentioning that the U.S. won that battle.
(Many admirals did express admiration for the Japanese in candid evaluations during the war and in memoirs afterwards.)
You can make anyone look bad by selectively quoting, and quoting out of context.
