# LION-AG Experiment

You can make life easier for your data guy if you add some sort of sync signal to your system i.e., a pulse coincident with the beginning of some interesting input. If this is not available, however, I am finding with Alan G's data that event-triggered averaging is pretty straightforward if you use sudden changes in the current input as the trigger.

• I noticed a bit of jitter in the starting times of the cycles and also a handful of occasions when here was an delay that went beyond jitter. I dealt with this by aligning things by hand in a spreadsheet but obviously the effort involved in this this technique doesn't scale up well.

Does the data analysis package you are using have the capability of triggered selection of data segments? If it does then I suggest event triggered averaging based on your "pstate" variable going from low to high. That would get around all issued of jitter etc.

• Hi. AFAIK The Netto geiger timebase (1 sec) actually provides the time signal for the whole system. Data is collected every 10 secs and for the Netto is it's own rolling average over 1 minute periods - it shows you CPM at any given time. I am just investigating major system upgrades, so this may change. I will pass your comments on. Thank you.

Alan.

• I'm not a data analyst, just interested checking out what's going on with more advanced tools than spreadsheets. With what I've got pretty much anything is possible as the data and the graphs are prepared with programming code using mainly http://pandas.pydata.org/ and https://matplotlib.org/ .

What I wanted to accomplish was grouping 'delta' counts into 1/2 period chunks (16.5 minutes) so that it could be possible to differentiate between "high" and "low" power states simply by using the odd or the even chunks.

Subsequently, by summing cumulatively the so-formed chunks it becomes possible to check out if the rate of increase in the total count is constant or varies throughout the experiment, and if it's different between the two power states. This also avoid averaging the data, which could eliminate small but potentially real signals (in my opinion).

So far the only interesting changes appear to be with the He3 neutron counts, but there doesn't seem to be a clear correlation with the state of the experiment, so I'm guessing that it can be part of the long term background variation. It's also possible that a signal is buried in the jitter in start/end times like you mentioned, but since nothing seems to clearly arise, if there's anything it must be very small.

With the usual caveats:

Data from the beginning

From 2018-04-12 through the end

• Hi. AFAIK The Netto geiger timebase (1 sec) actually provides the time signal for the whole system. Data is collected every 10 secs and for the Netto is it's own rolling average over 1 minute periods - it shows you CPM at any given time. I am just investigating major system upgrades, so this may change. I will pass your comments on. Thank you.

To be clear, a rolling average is magnificent if you are interested in slow changes in average behaviour. But it is like a low-pass filter and smudges out the time characteristics of signals. If you have a suspicion that faster events (i.e., bursts) or events that are locked to particular time-features of your stimulus input are important, then a rolling average is your enemy and triggered averaging across different data segments is what you want. It is an extremely useful technique and can be set up on an oscilloscope or in DAQ software for use when an experiment is ongoing. The power of real-time analysis during an experiment is that you can wait for the signal you are looking for to emerge as the random noise is averaged away. You then know when you can stop the experiment because you know when you have collected enough data.

• Our analyses are complimentary.

The numbers on your charts are too small for me to read. What is the time stamp associated with the biggest difference in the He3 signal in your top plot? I will have a look at the corresponding stretch f data using my analysis technique.

• Try opening the images in new tabs. LENR-Forum is making them small. You can also click the "view source image" button to achieve the same.

• I eventually noticed that the periods of "low" pstate defined this way are on average about 4-5% longer than the "high" pstate. So this wouldn't have worked properly eithe

Thanks, that is a good clue. I will review the PID program which was entered manually with the front panel buttons and the obscure 4-char alpha display. There is apparently a one-minute segment in the lower temperature section that got in somehow. There might also be some discrepancy between the PID's internal clock and the PC's system clock used to time-stamp the data, though that would be a constant drift of small magnitude.

AlanG

• I found the 1 minute error in the PID program. It occurred because the "number of segments" parameter is 0-based, not 1-based. Sorry...

• We are changing over (soon) to an NI- FP2000 data collection system, a large part of which has been donated today by an interested individual who keeps an eye on the forum. I hope this will help, it will certainly give us easier access to live data displays.

• Thanks H-G. Actually all the software required is freely downloadable online too- and we have Labview, so all should be possible.

• Thanks, that is a good clue. I will review the PID program which was entered manually with the front panel buttons and the obscure 4-char alpha display. There is apparently a one-minute segment in the lower temperature section that got in somehow. There might also be some discrepancy between the PID's internal clock and the PC's system clock used to time-stamp the data, though that would be a constant drift of small magnitude.

AlanG

The next experiment, putting hundreds of discs into the reactor, may have good results.

• Another experiment from MFMP that failed to show excess heat, radiation or LENR… But, again, they have shown improvements in their equipment, techniques and knowledge. Using those they properly examined if we can see LENR in the LION setup. Unfortunately, so far we cannot.

Congratulations to MFPM, their colleagues and supporters for your efforts. Keep up with the good work.

Alberto.

• I am in need of (mainly) 2 things ATM. A litre or less of heavy water and a Gamma Spectrometer, this being the cheapest one I can find. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neu…482ae6:g:Gi8AAOSwhpZaJKdY

If anyone here has either gathering dust, I would be most obliged, as I'm spending around \$1k a week on LENR at the moment! But what the hell, even Rossi can't take it with him.

• It's cheap because it doesn't include the scintillator head (crystal + photomultiplier), although the pictures show it with a detector assembly. I think that might violate eBay rules, because they are showing something that is not included in the sale.

The same seller also separately lists the system with the scintillator included, for US\$795. That's a pretty good price if it works well, but the channel count (energy resolution) of the MCA is not mentioned in either listing, and should be determined before buying this one.

• Thanks for the advice Alan. I had noticed no scintillator, but I am pretty sure I have laid my hands on one.

• Are you only seeing effects with heavy water?

EDIT: by the way, would you consider using alternative materials in front of the photomultiplier in place of a conventional scintillator?

The post was edited 1 time, last by can ().

• Hi Alan,

Would like to make a 500 euro donation.

I know it is not what you need to continue all the good work, but maybe others will follow

Maybe you could start a crowdfunding?

It would be great if others could buy deuterium prepared diamonds, or prepared nickel crystals from you.

To have a common source would doing replications a lot easier and cheaper!

Ron

• A bit late, but in the end I tried plotting counts per minute or CPM (obtained by subtracting the cumulative counts by the same shifted by 12 samples—one sample every 5 seconds this time) and marking the average of each series +/- 2 standard deviations to more clearly see if anything stood out of it. I couldn't notice anything in particular.

EDIT: also added counts per hour.

## Images

• Alan,

When Lewan was to have his "symposium", my understanding was that you were making a presentation.

From the interview with Ms. Carat..

"That's quite correct, yes. Mats is (???) for both days because I'll be presenting the Hydrogen stuff that we've talked about, but also a glow discharge experiment, which [is] pure LENR; I'm designing it in conjuction with one of the "Old Guard", as I call them"

Your statement included "pure LENR" and I was understanding that to mean you had a replicable LENR reaction. Perhaps I read too much into statement.

Now that the symposium is delayed/canceled, can you clarify as to what you were going to demo and what you have replicated?

Again, perhaps my understanding was very cloudy, but I was under the impression that this was going to be a process that was replicable on demand?

If so, have you shared this with MagicSound? The more replications the better. Again, perhaps I was misunderstanding and if so, can you clarify?

• YES!

We are eager to see the meshugganons at work.

(And Axil longs to see the MEShugganONS )

• First of all, let me assure you that anything that LFH (or me independently) discover about the LION replication is freely shared with magicsound . In fact we have zero interest in keeping secrets. Principally because in this field we are in the unique situation where you can tell the absolute truth and nobody cares, or if they do think you are lying..Since I wont be at ICCF this year (I have meetings in the USA shortly before and in Japan shortly after) the Stockholm demo will have to wait until the Italy ISCMNS meeting in the Autumn. I do like to get home sometimes.

The Stockholm demo was to be based on demonstration raised levels of radiation from Pd foils in a very low pressure deuterium glow-discharge tube. So far, so ordinary, but we do this at high temperatures - which AFAIK is novel. In pieces at the moment due to our recent move and also because of our concentration on the LION protocol. On which topic, more soon.

• Many thanks for your kind donation to the war on global warming and energy poverty.

• ahoy there, LION replicators:

Would you consider asking Mike Taggett of Tern research to provide you with a sample of ultra dense deuterium to use as fuel in a LION type reactor test?

https://ternresearch.com/

TERN RESEARCH

• First of all, my grateful thanks to an anonymous (at his/her own request) forum member who has very kindly donated £100.00 to the war chest.

Secondly here's something to delight axil , diapads adhering to a nickel plated neo magnet which is also the cathode of a heavy-water electrolytic cell. The anode is a coil of palladium wire running around the outside the magnet.

• This is an interesting paper- and very relevant.

The surface treatment at high temperatures, such as 650°C,
increases the percentage of hydrogen storage in a sample of
diamond powder.
• The comparison of the data of treated specimens vs. control
samples of untreated samples displays that treating the
surface of the diamond powder with an electronegative
element such as fluoride activates the surface of the material
allowing for the more loose bonds to be made between the
hydrogen molecules and the surface of the diamond powder.

http://www.pupr.edu/wp-content…ion_Diamond_NaF_David.pdf

• First of all, my grateful thanks to an anonymous (at his/her own request) forum member who has very kindly donated £100.00 to the war chest.

Secondly here's something to delight axil , diapads adhering to a nickel plated neo magnet which is also the cathode of a heavy-water electrolytic cell. The anode is a coil of palladium wire running around the outside the magnet.

In your precious effort, you used a Lithium based salt to electolize the water. Are you still doing this in this new attempt? I assume that you are.

Also, Holmlid uses potassium salt to provide a Rydberg blockade template to help form his hydrogen ultra dense product. Lithium might do the same job, but it might not. If lithium salt addition proves to be unsuccessful in loading hydrogen in its special form into diamond, would you be willing to use a potassium salt as an electrolizer?

Did you notice if hydrogen formation is concentrated on the diadisks?

Congratulation on you new finding.

You might be able to tell if the diadisks are LENR active using a good microscope. If you place the diadisks on carbon tape as was done with the SEM of EM356 fuel, you might be able to see transmutation in the carbon tape around the base of the diadisks produced by emissions of ultra dense hydrogen from the disks..

see post

me356: Photos of AURA control unit

for examples of this observation.

600X or more could show the transmutation tracks.

It might be efficacious to develop a LENR fuel inspection method that can determine if diadisks are LENR active without placing them into a reactor and running them.

• Do you think its the same as carbon dust, obsidian chips and hematite dust mix as a post stud ? or did i go up the wrong tree?