Posts by Mark U

Quote from Bob#2

I doubt that. It has been proven a con and yet most supporters refuse to acknowledge it.

...

and the list goes on.

Yet, I have not seen an ardent Rossi supporter yet acknowledge that Doral was a scam, despite all the evidence. So I doubt the claim "We'll take it on the chin, like men." is correct. Excuses are always made up!

Oh, I don't deny that Rossi has lied and finessed to get his way. He is, as far as I can tell, Machiavellian. (He even looks like Machiavelli.) Not my personal cup of tea for doing things. But some people can pull it off, and it can work. If the ultimate purpose is noble, then do the ends justify the means? Not in my philosophy. But I understand that people like Rossi may see things differently. About Doral, I've believed for a while that more than anything it was a way for him to get time and finesse resources (from IH) to work on a successor to the Ecat - the QuarkX - while onsite at the 'factory' most hours of the day. So to me, certain aspects of Doral were indeed a scam and a necessary evil for him to continue with his work. Yeah it's yucky.

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However, the Rossi skeptics have far more to swallow once it is proven there is some truth in what the Italian Fox says, than in a negative situation.

Quote from THHuxleynew

I don't worry about that, not even a tiny bit. You OTOH have given some thought to your escape hatch?

So if Rossi is vindicated, you have no qualms about having repeatedly slandered the man. Surely that says something, psychologically and culturally.

If Rossi's work is all an elaborate con, there is no need to escape through some hatch for us Rossi believers. We'll take it on the chin, like men.

Hello Gennadiy,

Absolutely stunning scenery in Mangystau, wow! (Just saw the the Youtube video you linked to last month).

I have to ask: What is that twelve - legged device you are standing under in one of your pics?

Thanks,

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

Mark, Rossi said this was the Industrialization phase, not the pioneering phase, until it didn't work.

I may be misunderstanding your meaning, but the product is working in more than one industrial setting, according to Rossi. It is also in a trial stage. So I don't regard the two as mutually exclusive. When you say 'it didn't work' I don't know what you mean.

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Why do you think there are a handful out there?

Someone asked Rossi about a week ago if he has more customers using E-cat SK heat now, and he replied 'yes'. So I'm going by Rossisays, and ... guessing at numbers.

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I say there are none out there.

Hey you could be right. I don't know for sure, but I believe he does have E-cat SKs at work.

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Evolution Rossi style means no progress ever. Can you not see that?

At the very least one could say that there is ... change. Since I surmise that his early E-cats did work but had control issues and burned out early, and that the E-cat SK is largely free from those issues, I see progress. I can also see that hindsight might show me to be naive and misled. I can take that.

Quote from PhysicsForDummies

Mark was it not a sudden change to abandon the "industrialization" of the e-cat SK, with it's 8 out of 10 customer satisfaction scores and robotic manufacturing lines? That seemed sudden to me.

Not sure I'm understanding you. The E-cat SK has not been mass produced. Perhaps just a handful out there, in a pioneering phase, or field trials if you will. When the remaining bugs are worked out then Rossi could step up the manufacturing. So no abandonment, just evolution Rossi style. The Leonardo mod of the SK could totally replace the simple SK, or maybe not. Seems to me the Leonardo version's most important applications would be to gridless locations or else to provide unequivocal demonstrations of energy production.

Quote from clarifier

Yeah, there is my predicted next contradiction...

or maybe I lost the path ? Who would not ?

I remember, Dottore Scammarsi wanted to produce direct electricity out of the ecat-sk-leonardo.

Right ?

So what about this,

https://e-catworld.com/2019/07…roduces-a-magnetic-field/

where sockpupett Frank says something like:

Since when did that suddenly changed in one week ?

Maybe, only Frank knows... very likely, but much more likely is, that Frank just is a helping hand of Dottore Charadassi.

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No sudden change. The idea is to produce just enough electricity from the SK to power the SK and thus make it independent of the grid. Rossi thinks this can be done within a year. Almost all the energy produced will still be heat. I recall Rossi implying it would be a long time before it becomes primarily an electricity producer.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Beliefs are cheap. Proof is more difficult. Science isn't built on "beliefs."

Oh why not. I'll be contrarian. Some beliefs are hard won beliefs involving much investigation. Very much of science is outside the purvey of what would be considered 'proof'. In fact much of science begins with a hunch - a proto-belief - which is then methodically tested to see if it stands up. If it stands up, even then that does not constitute proof per se, but serves to affirm and strengthen what was once a hunch or tentative belief. And yet, even after tests seem to confirm the truth of a belief, such a belief may still be shown to be fundamentally flawed in the future. Such is the nature of science.

Someone will say science may not be about proof, but about facts. However, we can have many experimental facts before us and yet come to different conclusions, different beliefs if you will, depending on how we chose to interpret or prioritize our facts. Science is very much a human, fallible affair and far from absolute. I believe in the efficacy of science, it is a very excellent method of exploration. But it needs to be put in its place. Don't bow down before it, and don't beat people up with it. Science was made for man, not man for science.

Quote from interested observer

Nope, believing LENR may ultimately provide a useful source of energy is not that far fetched or outlandish. Believing Rossi’s endless BS has any merit IS ridiculous. What I was talking about is UFOs, polywater, Bigfoot, magnetic motors, and the rest of the paranormal looney bin. The remaining Rossi believers seem to be serial credulists. Lots of LENR supporters believed Rossi at first. Most of them have come to their senses at this point. The truth is, there is little reason to think Rossi has anything to do with LENR, regardless of what your view of LENR is.

Perhaps you are right and Rossi has nothing to do with LENR. I don't know, I only believe that he does have something.

You don't believe in UFOs. Well nobody's perfect.

Quote from interested observer

As far as I have observed, anyone who believes Rossi is for real also believes a whole host of other preposterous and far-fetched things. I suppose these people just consider themselves to be more open-minded than their fellow humans. Plenty of space in there, no doubt.

Far fetched, as in believing LENR ultimately providing a useful source of energy for mankind? If you can't believe that, then I doubt you could believe Rossi has something. But hey, we all have inner space, a fascinating place of possibilities. Perhaps some of us are better at interior design than others. Hopefully it's not too drab in there.

Quote from Director

I don't doubt for a single second that Rossi's working on producing an improved version of the SK. The problem is that he's never going to share enough info with a partner to get the support to mass produce his technology.

In that case, given that that the SK actually works and is now functioning at the site of at least one customer, then word has got to leak out. Then presumably he will be able to procure financing to run his own production facility. Given that Rossi desires control and security/secrecy, I would think this is a route he would like to take.

To me it comes down to two scenarios. The first scenario is that Rossi is a conman, period, and just wants money, and fame for a season. Many here seem to believe that, even to 'know' that. Personally I find that scenario highly unlikely. The second scenario is that Rossi is a driven inventor first and foremost, and will do almost anything to further the opportunity and means for him to develop his invention. To Rossi (it seems to me) the 'ends justifies the means'. The end is inventing a new energy source for the world, and the means involves not only hard work but unseemly means to obtain the necessary funding.

There is of course someone of history who epitomizes that philosophy that the ends justifies the means: Niccolo Machiavelli of Italy. Is it just me, or does Rossi bear an uncanny resemblance to his fellow Italian?

Now, people think that Machiavelli was a bad dude. That is a gross simplification and misrepresentation. For instance from wiki:

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The term Machiavellian often connotes political deceit, deviousness, and realpolitik. On the other hand, many commentators, such as Baruch Spinoza, Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Denis Diderot, have argued that Machiavelli was more of a republican, even when writing The Prince, and his writings gave inspiration to Enlightenment proponents of modern democratic political philosophy. His much less popular work, the Discourses on Livy, is often said to have paved the way of modern republicanism.

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Modern materialist philosophy developed in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, starting in the generations after Machiavelli. This philosophy tended to be republican, but as with the Catholic authors, Machiavelli's realism and encouragement of using innovation to try to control one's own fortune were more accepted than his emphasis upon war and factional violence. Not only was innovative economics and politics a result, but also modern science, leading some commentators to say that the 18th century Enlightenment involved a "humanitarian" moderating of Machiavellianism.

The importance of Machiavelli's influence is notable in many important figures in this endeavor, for example Bodin,Francis Bacon, Algernon Sidney, Harrington, John Milton, Spinoza, Rousseau, Hume, Edward Gibbon, and Adam Smith. Although he was not always mentioned by name as an inspiration, due to his controversy, he is also thought to have been an influence for other major philosophers, such as Montaigne, Descartes, Hobbes, Locke and Montesquieu.

Just a little food for thought.   I don't 'know' that Rossi has a transformative technology.  But I 'believe' he has something, something at least good enough to drive him onward to improve upon it.    How good it can get with Rossi is the question, to me, and when.   I can wait. 

Quote from we_cat_global

So i do not agree with you that his demo's do not work. I think they work just fine and i am looking forward to another Rossi event.

JB

If there is such an event, it will showcase the direct electricity production I suppose.

I'm one of those who remain hopeful that Rossi has at least something significant. The reasons are varied, but frankly a big one was the "ballerina" of the last video demo.

The closest phenomenon I've seen to that 4 inch high, 4 inch diameter 'magnificence' is a youtube video of a microwave plasma, here:

PS I thought the Ecat song was from earlier this year. Lo and behold I just saw there was a version as early as 2011!

Quote from Shane D.

Their background search would take them here, where they would see he is a big believer in LENR, therefore his paper must have something to do with it. That would be the end of that.

I am not proposing an aspiring LENR theorist decide to never try for a peer review for fear of rejection. If they have the time and energy, I say go for it. But IMO, there have been many others who have gone down that rigorous path, only to be met with a door closed in their face. Could be wrong though.

The gatekeepers, those who essentially decide what is 'respectable' to talk about, guard the esteemed journals. Peer view is generally still intact there. But god forbid you want to publish what is not deemed respectable in those journals. I hate to quote from Wiki, but here goes.

Julian Seymour Schwinger (/ˈʃwɪŋər/; February 12, 1918 – July 16, 1994) was a Nobel Prize winning Americantheoretical physicist. He is best known for his work on the theory of quantum electrodynamics (QED), in particular for developing a relativistically invariant perturbation theory, and for renormalizing QED to one loop order. Schwinger was a physics professor at several universities.

Schwinger is recognized as one of the greatest physicists of the twentieth century ....

After 1989 Schwinger took a keen interest in the non-mainstream research of cold fusion. He wrote eight theory papers about it. He resigned from the American Physical Society after their refusal to publish his papers. He felt that cold fusion research was being suppressed and academic freedom violated. He wrote: "The pressure for conformity is enormous. I have experienced it in editors' rejection of submitted papers, based on venomous criticism of anonymous referees. The replacement of impartial reviewing by censorship will be the death of science."

Quote from CWatters

The one thing that puzzles me about Rossi is why he keeps going. I mean he already has enough cash to live the rest of his life in comfort, and I've not heard mention of any children to pass any new fortune to.

This is a good question. Is Rossi faking that he is working hard? I don't think so. Did he run a 24 hour race as a young man? I think so. He seems by nature a very determined, stubborn, hard working individual, now as an inventor. To keep on his path, at his pace, something must be inspiring him. That's why people like myself hold out hope that he really has something real. I figure that his own progress is encouraging him.

Quote from Shane D.

So now Rossi's day of reckoning is 20 years away. Guess he and the hot fusion industry have something in common now. I was hoping Rossi's "Final Chapter" would happen in my lifetime, so I know the full truth . What a bummer.

Sorry, I had the song in mind. Final curtain meaning that which is as inevitable as taxes. As to a day of reckoning, I don't it will ever come unless Rossi himself says it was all a fake. And he won't say that, because, I believe, it isn't a (fullblown) fake.

Quote from clarifier

I should quote Shane D. here,m but I forgot, where to look for the proper quote.

Simply said: There is not the slightest chance, this scammer was ever right.

There is not the slightest reliability in his claims, even in his contradictions.

There is no more time worth to be wasted, no more patience to be kept.

It simply is the "final chapter" and he will go down with his ship full of rats.

Not the slightest chance? I (and I'm sure others) would beg to differ, and that is why I follow this saga. Rossi may be at least partly right.

If Rossi says now there are no fusions, it is because he (now) doesn't seem to think that elements change to other elements, but rather retain their proton number and only change in neutron number. Yeah he has changed his thinking over the years. Yeah he has bitten off more than he can chew. Maybe in twenty years he'll face the final curtain. Not now though. He has work to do. He has a goal and he intends to achieve it, that's who he is. Enjoy

Quote from Alan Smith

Canadian researcher, Dr. Dimiter Alexandrov, Lakehead University, in his semiconductor research laboratory, performed successful replicable LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) experiments considering interactions of both deuterium and hydrogen gases with certain metals in a vacuum chamber. The products of these LENR experiments were helium (both stable isotopes He-3 and He-4) and heat. No radiation above the normal background was detected during the experiments. He also developed a theory explaining the observed experimental outcomes. Based on this early work he has prepared the following proposal to develop a LENR reactor which is being submitted for the next stage of his R&D.... See the link for more :-http://canadiancor.com/proposa…pment-of-an-lenr-reactor/

From the link:

The released heat is determined by a temperature increase of 3C during a certain time interval resulted in a net energy released in the sample holder of 384.15229776 J based on the weight of the inflated D2 is 1.444*10^-12 kg and its corresponding volume is 8.022*10-12m^3.

Doesn't a volume of 8.022 * 10^-12 m^3 correspond to the volume of a cube with sides of .2 mm ? That seems extremely tiny to me. I don't know how that makes sense from an experimental point of view. Anyway. I like that he uses the F word. Good old fusion.

Quote from JedRothwell

If you think Rossi was working, you have not read the Penon report. It takes no work to write down bogus numbers once a day.

Since Rossi announced his QX while at Doral (in the latter stages iirc) he was almost certainly working on the next version of E-Cat while supposedly babying his Doral E-Cats. Rossi is a work horse.

Quote from zorud

IO - agreed!

And we should not forget Rossi's frequent statements on the temperature in his little nuclear reactors / plasma: 1eV = 11604 K! The most recent one but was 8111 K from his scribble board...anyway very difficult to imagine how he will remove the 22kW from the photons from the plasma. The shaking (why shaking?) camera had a direct line-of-sight (shielding removed?) to the core of the (whatever kind of transparent) plasma cylinder and did not show any sign of any medium that converts the photon energy into heat...another mysterious thing would be how the video camera can "see" something around that very bright plasma while most likely also peeking through a 14 shade protection?

And we should not forget Rossi's frequent statements on the temperature in his little nuclear reactors / plasma: 1eV = 11604 K! The most recent one but was 8111 K from his scribble board.

I would take Rossi's calculations regarding temperature with a big grain of salt. Colour 'temperature' based on certain spectrum attributes and actual thermal temperature can vary immensely when the kinetics of the plasma does not follow the Maxwell Boltzmann distribution. Based on the shape of the spectrum it doesn't follow that distribution, so I wouldn't put too much stock in Rossi's derivation.

anyway very difficult to imagine how he will remove the 22kW from the photons from the plasma

As far as I can deduce, the Ballerina is enclosed in a 10cm tall by 10cm diameter transparent sealed cylinder. I believe the cylinder is contacted by either flowing liquid or flowing gas (argon) to carry heat away. I suspect by far most of the energy leaves the plasma via radiative cooling ; the photons pass through the transparent cylinder and heat the surrounding moving liquid or gas.

The shaking (why shaking?) camera had a direct line-of-sight (shielding removed?) to the core

I think it is a mistake to believe the camera is shaking. Rather, the plasma is oscillating ; stretching and contracting in all directions. A careful look at the video will show that movement in all quarters of the video is not congruent among the quarters as one would expect if the camera was merely shaking.

About the 'core'. I don't think core is visible. It is apparently very small and emits mostly in the eUV. Plasma is not transparent to eUV, and by the the time the camera sees the light, the eUV light from the core has been absorbed and reemitted diffusely at lower frequency by the plasma.

another mysterious thing would be how the video camera can "see" something around that very bright plasma while most likely also peeking through a 14 shade protection?

I think the reason is that the plasma around the Ballerina (but still contained within the cylinder) is also quite bright, just not nearly as bright as the Ballerina.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Mark: that fact alone might give you reason to check your assumptions.

(1) comparison with candle is wrong: candles emit a lot of light in infra-red and are very inefficient (visible light cf power in) when compared with fluorescent discharge. Your assumption that the same volume density of photons is emitted in the two cases is just wrong.

Non sequitur. While of course it is true that fluorescent tubes are much much better emitters in the visible (and poor in the infrared; about exactly the opposite of a candle), this says nothing about the density of photons in a candle flame vs the ballerina. It's a reasonable assumption that the photon density of the two are comparable. There is no basis for you to say it is "just wrong".

(2) light output of a flame or plasma scales with surface area not volume if the flame or plasma is opaque (interior emission is in thermal equilibrium with absorption) . So your 200X factor would scale down to 34 (2/3 power).

No. It scales with volume, because the volume is where the exothermic combustion reaction occurs for candles. The emission from this volume will equal the emission through the surface, and *this* is the equilibrium you seem to be referring to. I say 'seem' , because your strange use of the term 'absorption' has me wondering you are proposing that a candle emits as much as it absorbs. But that would be ridiculous wouldn't it. Alternatively you may be conflating this with blackbody lingo, where a perfect blackbody is as perfect an absorber as it is an emitter. But of course that doesn't mean a perfect blackbody actually emits the same amount that it absorbs, does it?

So: because your reasoning fails, why not fall back to the normal kind of assumption for skeptics, namely that Rossi is lying. Specifically he would need to be lying or mistaken about at least one of three things:

1) The size of the Ballerina

2) The brightness and emission of the Ballerina, such that one requires shade 14 eye protection.

3) The insubstantial (nearly zero) power going into the E-Cat SK.

After all is said and done, at this point it comes down to a matter of assumptions. Chose your assumptions carefully.

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