[quote]...... It would depend though on what exactly they reported.."
I don't care whether you read my posts or not but had you read them and carefully considered them along the way since 2011, you would have strongly suspected that Rossi was a crook and had no LENR, long before now!
Thank you for your reply and providing the answer.
"I was once accused of having to always be right, that I was never wrong... I replied, you know, I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken" 
McKubre does not merit being believed because he has been fooled before ... [e.g., by paying] attention to the idiotic Papp claims about (ROTFWL) "noble gas engines."
This is one of the things I love about McKubre — his willingness to look at strange-sounding claims, like those of Bob Rohner, despite certain knowledge that there will be criticisms like this. I look forward to the time Papp's device is given additional scientific attention.
QuoteI look forward to the time Papp's device is given additional scientific attention.
The theory requires NO additional attention. It's hogwash. Papp was a paranoid schizophrenic and a chronic liar. As I said before, I knew one of the doctors who treated him for a self-inflicted bullet wound in the 1960's. The Rohners are liars and if I am not mistaken one or both have been in trouble with the law.
QuoteARREST WARRANT ISSUED FOR JOHN P. ROHNER
Published April 9, 2016
An arrest warrant was issued for John P. Rohner when he failed to appear at a court ordered hearing in Las Vegas, NV.
Previously John Rohner had been convicted of contempt of court, (a separate charge from the original SEC charges Rohner was also found guilty of at a different hearing), in relation to his SEC civil fraud case. The Court held a hearing on March 28, 2016, at which the Court held Rohner in Contempt of Court. The hearing on April 8, 2016 was to determine what, if any, sanctions would be handed down on the contempt charge.
Here is a copy of the minutes of proceedings relating to the Contempt of Court hearing on April 8, 2016.
Rohner-1
Several places for reference... just Google "John P. Rohner" and arrest.
McKubre wastes a lot of time on nonsense and I have not seem him repudiate it. I wonder how he feels now about his various glowing endorsements of and lectures including Rossi's BS.
The theory requires NO additional attention. It's hogwash. Papp was a paranoid schizophrenic and a chronic liar. As I said before, I knew one of the doctors who treated him for a self-inflicted bullet wound in the 1960's.
Yes, the theory is pretty far out. But does the device do anything? 
ARREST WARRANT ISSUED FOR JOHN P. ROHNER
You're conflating John Rohner with Bob Rohner. There was a falling out, and Bob no longer collaborates with John.
I wonder how he feels now about his various glowing endorsements of and lectures including Rossi's BS.
I do not think McKubre mentioned Rossi, or endorsed him. He might have mentioned him in passing. So did I.
I keep close track of McKubre's work.
I didn't save the links but I remember reading and hearing in videos where McKubre mentioned Rossi has an example of a promising LENR project without ever mentioning all the doubts he should have had based on the wretchedly absurd and inadequate testing Rossi allowed. He mentioned Rossi repeatedly in a favorable light as you did (remember one of Rossi's experiment had to be right by "first principles"? You DID say that! Yikes!). How soon we forget! Ascoli dug out many favorable mentions of yours about Rossi. And yet you still deny them! Wow. McKubre has no credibility whatever. Both Rohners are ... omitted to avoid censorship which does very much exist here. Only one got caught. There was never anything useful or worthwhile in Papp's insane claims. He had every opportunity to prove them and never did. Or maybe you also believe his supersonic submarine which was exhibited in the 1960's and which he used to go from Europe to the US in a few hours? Or maybe you believe the fuelless car Papp exhibited at Denver Airport?
https://blog.hemmings.com/inde…d-car-you-say-sign-me-up/
QuoteThe Fascination Car was the brain child of Paul M. Lewis, of the Highway Aircraft Corporation. It was developed with a standard engine, but he wanted to power it with ANYTHING that didn't burn gasoline. He was in negotiations with Ed Gray for a while to use the EMA Engine, but that fell through. He then approached Joseph Papp for his plasma engine. Ultimately, neither the engines or the car were ever produced.
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/gray.htm
Never produced? I wonder why. Must be those evil oil barons who prevented it. It couldn't be that Papp was simply a whackjob con man! That's FUD from skeptopathic naysayers.
There was never anything useful or worthwhile in Papp's insane claims. He had every opportunity to prove them and never did. Or maybe you also believe his supersonic submarine which was exhibited in the 1960's and which he used to go from Europe to the US in a few hours? Or maybe you believe the fuelless car Papp exhibited at Denver Airport?
I don't know what to think about the submarine. I know that the demonstration with Feynman resulted in a death and was otherwise inconclusive, and that pretty much spelled the end of any further scientific curiosity. I know that there were several other demonstrations before military observers. I also know that Mallove reports having talked to people who saw the device in operation who were impressed. And I know that McKubre looked at Bob Rohner's device, and he thought there was something interesting to it.
You won't succeed in discrediting McKubre as a witness that easily. Bob Rohner is not John Rohner. Bob Rohner has distanced himself from John Rohner. I repeat myself.
Papp may have been quite a character, and perhaps even a schizophrenic lier, but did his device work?
What do you call a paranoid schizophrenic who wins a Nobel prize...?
John Forbes Nash Jr!!!
ROTFWL!
Has Brillouin developed its own technology or has some of it have come from Rossi by way of IH who claim the right to share with such as they wish.
From Brillouin website:
"Brillouin Energy has been able to demonstrate that it can reliably initiate LENR in its reactors by applying electronic pulses to the metal rod and stopped by ceasing the pulsing and achieve net energy output ratios exceeding four (“4X” or ‘four times excess heat’). Brillouin Energy is not aware of any other group that has been able to achieve the combination of the level of reproducibility, continuity of operations, control of reactions, and a net energy output ratio significantly exceeding 1X, which has been achieved by Brillouin Energy. Coupled with the tritium tests – which confirmed that the excess heat generation can confidently be ascribed to nuclear reactions – Brillouin Energy’s research results demonstrate that LENR can realistically be considered a potential future energy source. - See more at: http://brillouinenergy.com/#sthash.q8xjvZFB.dpuf"
Best regards
Frank
Tritium = nasty by product. Prone to escaping (though no as much as Hydrogen) - but the thing we were always cautioned about when I first started working with radioactive tracers in biological systems was the fact that stray tritium can enter the bloodstream via the lungs and end up incorporated into proteins/genetic material as if it were Hydrogen. It is possible I guess.
Frank, so Brillouin and perhaps McKubre who worked with them say Brillouin's process worked. Does anybody else, who might be credible, say so? And how do they know? I think there is a large probability that Brillouin is another version of Rossi or Defkalion.
Eric, most of what you cited is hearsay and claims, not independent information. One huge problems with people who are gullible to one degree or another is that they assume someone proposing an attractive idea is usually truthful. That is quite often not the case. And note that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that noble gases are a source of energy. In fact, if they were, it would be a violation of the laws of thermodynamics, exceptions to which, on a macro scale, have NEVER been proven to exist in the entire history of science. Not that nobody has looked! At least, LENR, if it worked, would not violate *fundamental* laws of the universe. Energy from noble gases would. THINK! Where would such energy come from? Yeah I know. Dark matter. ROTFWL. People have been working with noble gases for many legitimate purposes for centuries... just as they have worked for more than 50 years with nickel and hydrogen in all sorts of complex industrial processes involving other chemicals, pressure, and heat and they never found LENR.
At least, LENR, if it worked, would not violate *fundamental* laws of the universe. Energy from noble gases would. THINK! Where would such energy come from?
I've read the Papp patents. He used things like thorium electrodes. My working assumption is that LENR involves induced alpha decay and fission. What if noble gasses have nothing to do with what the noble gas engine is doing, apart from providing a working medium? What is the thermodynamic balance of a system undergoing a nuclear reaction of some sort?
What is your knowledge of the independence/hearsay of the people Mallove talked to? Is my reading a newspaper article or a second-hand account and taking an interest an example of falling prey to hearsay? Have I suggested those are accounts upon which to draw a solid conclusion?
My hope is that some skeptical but independent-minded scientists will take interest in the device, rather than cavalierly writing it off, as you have. To my knowledge that hasn't happened yet, even with Feynman, except for McKubre.
Rossi allowed. He mentioned Rossi repeatedly in a favorable light as you did (remember one of Rossi's experiment had to be right by "first principles"? You DID say that! Yikes!). How soon we forget! Ascoli dug out many favorable mentions of yours about Rossi. And yet you still deny them!
How could I deny them? They are right here on the Internet. Mistakes live forever on the Internet. I deny nothing, and I regret nothing, as Edith Piaf said.
Given the evidence available to me then I think I made reasonably good evaluations. I am sure that I wrapped most of them in the usual academic cotton wool of plausible deniability. I never fail to do that! Someone quoting them here deliberately removed the wrapping, making it look like I made assertions without an escape clause. Anyone with as much experience using 1960s and 1970s computers as I do would never declare "X will work!" You have to add, "God willing and if the Creek don't rise" (The Creek Indian tribe).
I am still not certain that Rossi's early tests were all failures, or fraud. There was fairly convincing evidence from tests conducted in the US when he was in Italy, using other people's instruments. It is still possible he had something at that point. His recent 1-year test was wrong.
You are convinced Rossi's tests were fraud but I do not think you have offered technical reasons for that. You point to his personality which is not always a sure guide. Dishonest people sometimes do honest work. I expect you know little about his work. You are convinced that experiments by McKubre, Fleischmann and others have no merit. It is clear to me you know nothing about these experiments, you have read nothing, so you are apparently one of these people who jumps to conclusions with willful ignorance. Therefore I do not trust your technical judgment.
You seem to have no tolerance for ambiguity, and no ability to leave open the possibility that Rossi's early tests might have worked, even though it seems unlikely. You want everything to be black or white. Science doesn't work that way, in my experience.
Frank, so Brillouin and perhaps McKubre who worked with them say Brillouin's process worked.
McKubre did not say that the process works. He said some interesting things about it, but he did not say "it works."
Mary
Not that nobody has looked!
If nobody has not looked, somebody must have looked! ROTFWL
Best regards
Frank
Not strictly correct Frank. If nobody hasn't looked, it means not somebody, but everybody has looked. Because there are no bodies that have not.
Jed
I quoted directly from Brillouin's website. I have no idea how true the claims are. Now there are two targets for the skeptics. Rossi and Brillouin. I wonder if this will increase exponentially?
Alan, sorry if I left you out. I think looking at your recent fan mail (ABD Jed and Mary) you could well qualify.
Thanks for the correction above.
Best regards
Frank
QuoteGiven the evidence available to me then I think I made reasonably good evaluations.
The evidence:
- no calibrations EVER (in the early experiments) when the built in heater makes them very easy to do
- Rossi's BS about snakes and clowns when asked perfectly reasonable questions
- the band heater on the original ecat heats only the cooling water
- the output temp thermocouple is extremely easy to misplace too near the heater, absent calibration which would show this
- Rossi resisted totally any attempt on your part or anyone else's to improve any of the experiments
- Rossi never allowed independent replication of tests even though it would NOT endanger IP
- Rossi never did the exact same experiment twice (hallmark of deception)
- ecat performance decreased over 5 years both as to COP and absolute output excess power, as referenced to the Levi test (another hallmark of deception -- valid claims improve with time)
- Rossi's buying a diploma from an obvious mill and displaying it as legit
- Rossi's failure to show any instrument readings directly during the November 2011 "test" or the "megawatt plant"
- Rossi's constant lies about large companies and universities he was working with
- constant lies about robotic factories and making isotopes on the cheap
- mystery customers and mystery orders never proven to exist (after five years!)
- Rossi's consistent history of failure, scams, arrests, legal problems in Italy, whether convicted or not (most believe he was convicted and served plenty of time)
- Rossi never producing anything whatever which succeeded in the market (I claim he never produced anything useful at all ever)
- The thermoelectric fiasco with DOD
- Negative tests by the Swedish testing institute (for Hydrofusion) and failure to perform for NASA, Quantum Australia and others
- Screwing and lying to distributors multiple times including Hydrofusion in Rossi's own words, recently as per court papers
So given all this evidence, just off the top of my head, and MUCH MUCH more, your evaluation was that Rossi most likely had nuclear fusion on the tabletop as you claimed again and again (yes, with mild disclaimers on occasion) on Vortex and elsewhere. And you think these were good evaluations? That's your problem then. You have no idea when you don't know what you don't know! Even AFTER the fact! Wow.
Too bad you don't bet. I'd give you good odds that Rossi has nothing, never had anything and never will have anything. Same of course, with Defkalion. And probably Brillouin though they so far have put out nothing of sufficient merit to even make it worthwhile to examine.
Are you sure Mary Yugo and Abd are not one of the same person?
Best regards
Frank
