Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Shane,

I tried to delete it but good catch . I don't know what that crook scoundrel is doing but I will followup with your links. I am glad that we both have a sense of humor. "BTW my last check from Uzi did not clear can you address this with Dewey" at our next conspiracy meeting? That aside.

I also hope you saw the link in my April 1st joke in the playground. I hate politics living near DC. But anytime Gul Dukat talks... well people listen, he is after all the president. I am trying to at least come up with a way that Mr. Rossi &Co. could have vacated 3/4 MW just anyway. TTH was crushing it earlier and I like things to be fair. Maybe he transported it off the site.

I read the depositions. One common theme is that all the systems that Rossi mentions have been installed by unidentifiable contractors that Rossi found on the street.

Whoa.... you can not even imagine what the home depot in Miami's parking lot self employment section is like. How did the carry that much pipe? So much wood? Who else helped to carry it up to the second floor based on pipe length? I really will accept that "unidentifiable contractors" is a real thing in Miami. He gets a pass on this one with me.

To clarify somewhat, everything about the upstairs heat exchanger is Rossisays. So if Rossisays or agrees that the fresh air came in the upstairs window, and also went out the upstairs window, then that is the story. If he said he made a heat exchanger and later took it apart, and used two big fans and later took them apart, then that is the story. If he had a front window without glass in it for two years, then that is the story. If all the physical evidence of the upstairs contraption is missing, then it is a just a story. It is Rossi's story, and I am sure he will stick to it no matter what. A window was apparently missing in February, 2017. That seems to be sole scrap of evidence for the story, as lame as it is.

But why should facts and evidence get in the way of a good story? Most of his ardent supporters will plug any gaps or inconsistencies in his story with a patchwork of Rube Goldberg, cockamamy, unsupported pile of fantasy and pure speculation dressed as plausibility, no matter how grievous the lack of proof and no matter how weak the story is in its various aspects.

Quote from Rigel

Whoa.... you can not even imagine what the home depot in Miami's parking lot self employment section is like. How did the carry that much pipe?

Well, a normal DN150 carbon steel pipe would be quite heavy: Schedule 40 (STD) has a wall thickness of 7.11 mm; 28kg/m.
The weight of 22 pc of 10m long stretches is about 6 tons.
http://www.tiogapipe.com/assets/files/pipe-chart.pdf

A Schedule 5 pipe still has a wall thickness of 2.77 mm.

But amazingly, Rossi managed somehow to buy extraordinary piping material: DN150 carbon steel pipes with just 1.5 mm wall thickness! (Refer to 233-3, Wong)

Very conveninent that the wall thickness was so thin, not only because Rossi's boys didn't have to carry that much, also it greatly improves the heat dissipation (See Equation1 in 233-3) - otherwise that monster of an self-made heat exchanger (10m * 6.5m * 1m) would have become even significantly bigger in order to dissipate the 1MW heat.

EDIT: Actually, in terms of heat transfer, the pipe wall thickness is not the biggest issue, since one can "compensate" a thicker pipe with more allowance for the temperature drop (e.g. 90°C at the pipe outer surface). - As THH has already mentioned, the 200W/m2°C value for the heat transfer from the pipe to the air, is the main issue in Wong's calculation!

I'm really suprised what one can buy at Miami Home Depot.
Maybe Home Depot provided Rossi this special pipes, because they are eagerly waiting for the e-cats.
You remember, Rossi said in 2012 that he has talked with them about the e-cat distribution.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012…artinez-on-cah-flow-radio

Oh my, what if...... just what if...... after all this is over. Holly or Bollywood buys this story. Well when it happens (and Rigel told you so) and the rights are paid for in full in contract to Leonardo (in advance naturally) ... I have just one question. One question alone.....

Who plays Dewey?

Dear mods- Please forgive this one time. I will keep it in the playground _(hopefully).

Heating strips, hmm. They sound just like the band heaters, I predicted that Rossi would use to perform his magic trick thus recreating on a large scale the smaller original 10kW desktop reactors.

Quote from joshg

IIRC, they hired Murray after the 1MW test began, and one of the things they had him work on was rigorous testing of a Lugano-style reactor. So clearly they had not exhausted their own efforts before letting Rossi proceed. In fact, Murray was quite dismissive of Dameron and IH's capacity prior to hiring him to assemble an engineering team. That was in Spring/Summer 2015. So their efforts up until then apparently left a lot to be desired. Cassarino's (Ampenergo) testimony supports his view.

So they first collect money from the investors and show them the Plant, and only after that they bother to verify the proper function of the technology and hire an expert.....such a due diligence!!

Quote from Bob

A contract for $89 million dollars is not going to be changed by word of mouth! Just like the bank cannot change your car payment loan that is only for a few thousand dollars by word of mouth. Anyone should realize this!

I agree with you. Indeed I wonder why Darden asked Rossi to continue with the test, after having declared that the GPT was unrealizable because of the time lapsed, and promised him money in case of good results, without writing a new contract. He has testified that this proposal was said by word of mouth. Perhaps he considered useful the fact that in this way they were no longer bound by a contract to respect?

Quote from barty

If Rossi's IR measurement was part of the replication protocol it's obvious that they may have measured similar values.

As I understand it, IH came to the negative conclusion after using a less error prone and more reliable measurement method (calorimeter).

But indeed, it's strange that they did not use some simple thermocouples just for reference, during their first tests as well.

Maybe they didn't came to negative conclusion, considering that they used a more reliable measurement method.....maybe their previous results (COP 5, 9, 11) were the right ones. It's clear that after the suit those results have become troublesome and so it was more convenient to declare that they were measurements errors.

Quote from Shane D.

Good point! And do not forget that Rossi paid those "unidentifiable contractors" through his Leonardo or JMP...not invoiced through IH as was the usual.

So what ?

It was Leonardo private business to install his own plant. At what conclusion do you want to come ? Who cares who was the people that installed the plant ?

What really mattes are the ERV results and the plant is still there to be analyzed by experts if needed.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Looks like Wong was wrong again!

Yep. Totally agree. Wong's value of 200 W/m2K for the convection coefficient appears to be way off... I'm surprised it's repeated so often (also offline too).

Apologies for my slightly provocative initial post THH... Annoyingly I used the same calculator to work out the necessary length of pipe a while back, and later didn't notice the discrepancy.

Quote from Malcolm Lear

Heating strips, hmm. They sound just like the band heaters,

You are writing of something that you have not seen directly and that was "looking as" in a photograph and now it "sounds like".

Your comment really looks like the usual FUD.

Ele, can you think of any good reasons that the heater straps would be necessary?

Quote from Henry

"The E-Cat never produced the energy which was claimed for it. This energy had to be rejected somewhere, and this analysis has shown, by the process of elimination, that the claimed energy never existed."

Henry you have not done any real analysis. Just disgusting disinformation full of preconception.

1 MW is just the power that is received from the sun on a 1000 (33x33) square meters area. Any normal industrial installation dissipate this power in the environment.

Note also that if that heat is needed for a process par of the heat energy is absorbed by the process itself !

Quote from Zeus46

Yep. Totally agree. Wong's value of 200 W/m2K for the convection coefficient appears to be way off... I'm surprised it's repeated so often (also offline too).

Apologies for my slightly provocative initial post THH... Annoyingly I used the same calculator to work out the necessary length of pipe a while back, and later didn't notice the discrepancy.

@Zeuss46

Would you like to read my post with the calculations which I notice you never replied to, and do not now quote? I wonder why?

Then you could attempt to provide a reasoned argument for why I was wrong (as I asked). I may well have made a misatke - since Paradgmnoia is so convinced on other evidence (windows) that this RossiSays is a fiction he never checked.

Since I also agreed with the 200W/m^2K figure (for moderate transverse flow) you are misrepresenting the issue.

If you used the same calculator, would you care to tell me what flow rate is needed for: surface temp 100C, air temp 50C, pipe diameter 0.15m, pipe length 220m?

Then explain how that air can travel at that speed in a transverse fashion across those pipes in a 10X6.5X1m box with a total flowrate of only 1400m^3/s?

That would be very helpful to your case. And it requires no more than a bit of playing with a web calculator more informative than one that classified speed as moderate rather than some specific velocity.

THH

Quote from SSC

So they first collect money from the investors and show them the Plant, and only after that they bother to verify the proper function of the technology and hire an expert

As I said before, they had good people before they hired Murray. He's world-class, but they had other good people.

You should not speculate about things you know nothing about, especially when your speculation leads you to make serious accusations of misconduct.