Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread

  • Just some conclusions from the demonstration:


    1. The wire (the diameter less than 0.08 mm) made of NiAlLi – the fuel is placed in tube made of high temperature resistance material (temperature conductive).

    2. The electric current flowing through the fuel is modulated and is the real activator of LENR – mainly the fission of Li. Thus, the fuel has electrical contact with control block modulating the input power.

    3. LEN reaction is accompanying by generation of electric impulses able to pass to control block and they should be stopped to prevent the control box damage. These pulses generation is direct electricity generation from LENR and can be utilized.


    What is the role of the plasma? Is it necessary for the generation of the excess heat or is it a byproduct of the heat?

  • What is the role of the plasma? Is it necessary for the generation of the excess heat or is it a byproduct of the heat?

    At temperature 2000 °C, Li in gas phase (boiling point 1330 °C), Ni and Al are melted, so H is going in-out of Ni and H+ reacts with Li resulting in Li nuclei fission. If plasma is mix of Li+, H+ and electrons so plasma is source of heat. But, what is really the plasma in this case is open question.

    One more question, based exclusively on my theoretical speculations. Why size is so small ? Besides the convenience to control, I see the dimension around 10 in order minus 4 - 5 meter is critical.

  • Well, things are progressing according to the schedule I posted last month:


    1) Rossi announces an upcoming pivotal event

    2) Rossi supporters become very excited and conveniently forget everything that happened in the past. They proclaim that skeptics will soon be eating crow by the bucketful.

    3) Supporters and skeptics argue vociferously for weeks on end before the "event"

    4) The event happens and it is sort of what was anticipated but not quite

    5) Supporters are ecstatic declaring the dawn of a new age

    6) Skeptics and non-combatants alike point out glaring problems with "the event" until it is clearly revealed as meaningless

    7) Supporters gradually retreat to relative silence

    8) Rinse and repeat


    5 and 6 generally last a few weeks, so grab a beer and settle in.

  • Sounds as though the credibility of Mr Rossi's demonstration is going to depend on the credibility of his claim that the electronics of his control system created so much heat that a large fan was necessary. Does anyone have views on this?

  • Les

    À la température de 2000 ° C, Li en phase gazeuse (point d'ébullition 1330 ° C), Ni et Al sont fondus, donc H va en dehors de Ni et H + réagit avec Li, ce qui entraîne la fission des noyaux Li. Si le plasma est un mélange de Li +, H + et d'électrons, le plasma est une source de chaleur. Mais, ce qui est vraiment le plasma dans ce cas est une question ouverte.

    Encore une question, basée exclusivement sur mes spéculations théoriques. Pourquoi la taille est si petite? Outre la commodité de contrôle, je vois la dimension autour de 10 dans l'ordre moins 4 - 5 mètres est critique.

    probably a device's size too big remains difficult to stabilize power output because probably Rossi found burst of Heat/Rays ?

    Are we sure that Rossi's using nickel ? A molybdenum wire should resist better at this temperature. Finally a fine wire is similar as micropowder particles "aligned".

    To remember, i calculated the balance between NI/Li for Ecat Ht , so we have by volume almost 85%LI and Just 5%Ni following Rossi's patent.

    Finally a molybdenum wire should be take in account.

  • Cydonia

    Since the diameter of the electrodes (as far as what we know they are) or active component is so thin (0.08mm. This is about the same diameter of AWG40 wire), something makes me think that the plasma if there indeed is one being produced, is composed of electrode material that is being deliberately vaporized and ionized within the short 0.6 mm gap (which might vary during operation) using suitable pulses (for example a priming 'hv' pulse, then low voltage high current pulses), and that the reaction occurs within that 'dusty' environment. If this was the case the exposed facing parts of the electrodes wouldn't really have to resist in solid form at high temperatures.


    For what it's worth, when I did carbon arc discharge experiments under water a few months ago (following transmutation claims by MFMP) I noticed that the hot (and very bright) ionized carbon particles getting eroded from the electrodes (upon striking them manually) made it relatively easy to sustain an arc at (very) short distances despite the low voltages involved (<5V). I think the plasma formed thin pathways for electricity that made it easier for relatively large currents to pass through very small areas, vaporizing more material in a positive feedback loop, at least as long as proper electrode alignment could be maintained. This is probably common knowledge (carbon arc lamps are very old technology) but observing it in person is a different thing.


    So something similar could be happening there, but admittedly perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part.

    By the way: to clarify, in my case I don't think I've observed any repeatable effect that could be explained with LENR.



  • Maybe someone would be able to replicate Rossi's results using this kind of setup?

  • One item of concern was the fact that Rossi ran the reactor at 30% of maximum to avoid problems. What problems??? If the QX was solid, it should have run at 100%.

    Axil, the test was run at ~20 W. The rating of the QX is 20 W.

    The confusion comes from Rossi saying the QX could be turned down to 30%

  • Les

    if Rossi's using a wire , no dust in this case..just a LI/H plasma around..He could also use a tungsten wire which well breaks H2. We should find heterogeneous level of ionizing between H and Li, Fully in relation with Japanese transmutations experiments. i suggest Qx should react at the end of pulse/discharge not during..

  • Sounds as though the credibility of Mr Rossi's demonstration is going to depend on the credibility of his claim that the electronics of his control system created so much heat that a large fan was necessary. Does anyone have views on this?


    Bruce,


    That would be the most basic, and obvious thing of note for the unskilled such as myself. Really hard to miss that one. It kind of reminds me of the 28 Oct 2011 DPS. There, Rossi had the 500kw genset plugged into the 1MW plant and running the whole time. With the 1MW down-graded to 500kw due reactor problems (how convenient)....the test was deemed a success as it produced 500kw's. LOLs, and the same goes for this one.


    Difference then (2011) when almost no one questioned the obvious, compared to now, is that most, even the some of the more diehard Rossites, are seeing the obvious.


    Of course, there are still some who are stepping up to the plate to help Rossi, in what I call "fill in the blanks science". That is when Rossi has these gaping holes in his apparatuses, or explanations, that do not make sense, so he leaves it to his followers to fill in the blanks for him. He listens and learns from them, and then incorporates their creative ideas into his descriptions.


    But it is not going to be easy for Rossi, and those filling in the blanks for him, this time around. Not only do they have the hurdle you mention to explain away, but after reading the GSVIT guys 22passi post, Pekka over on ECW, and even Lewan himself, along with others, it looks like there are other glaring deficiencies, and most likely outright tricks, obvious from the videos.


    It is not looking good for the maestro.

  • Maybe someone would be able to replicate Rossi's results using this kind of setup?


    yes, maybe coming soon.


    In fact, there is no need to resort parasitic currents losses.
    Rossi may have simply used a resistance of 1mm in diameter of 30mm long to about 1000 Ohm. In parallel he has placed an inductor of about 10-20 mH, 0.3A which is very small and can fit inside the "exchanger".

    When measuring the system in DC, find R = 0 (from which reason the input power is very small because I ^ 2xR is very small) but at 100 kHz the inductor disappears and remains only the resistance dissipating 40-50 W at ~ 200 V.

    As Mats suspected, the generator is a current generator, so when replacing the reactor with a short-circuit, the current remains 0.3A. When the 800 Ohm resistance was set, Rossi or who for him switched the power supply to the voltage generator (the power supply was a black box and also carried the ON-OFF for 3-4 seconds, so at any time can also be transformed away from voltage control and vice versa).

  • Les

    if Rossi's using a wire , no dust in this case..just a LI/H plasma around..He could also use a tungsten wire which well breaks H2. We should find heterogeneous level of ionizing between H and Li, Fully in relation with Japanese transmutations experiments. i suggest Qx should react at the end of pulse/discharge not during..


    The experimental section of the Gullström-Rossi paper summarily described an apparatus in principle similar to the one of the demonstration, where there was:


    Quote

    a reactor containing two nickel rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space [...]


    During the test, a direct current was switched on and off. When the current was switched on, a plasma was seen flowing between the two nickel rods.

  • I have yet to see anyone of the skeptics come up with a novel objection yet. Especially MY, whose homework has deteriorated back to that of 3rd grade. And yes, that is Fulvio.

    Well, Alan.


    My objection is hardly novel. it was there for the first QX data (though I had output measurement issues there as well).


    My objection as it stands is based on the input power, which has been measured in a very weird and incorrect way. It could easily be 23W or indeed more. But perhaps I've missed something.


    THH

  • yes, maybe coming soon.


    In fact, there is no need to resort parasitic currents losses.
    Rossi may have simply used a resistance of 1mm in diameter of 30mm long to about 1000 Ohm. In parallel he has placed an inductor of about 10-20 mH, 0.3A which is very small and can fit inside the "exchanger".

    When measuring the system in DC, find R = 0 (from which reason the input power is very small because I ^ 2xR is very small) but at 100 kHz the inductor disappears and remains only the resistance dissipating 40-50 W at ~ 200 V.

    As Mats suspected, the generator is a current generator, so when replacing the reactor with a short-circuit, the current remains 0.3A. When the 800 Ohm resistance was set, Rossi or who for him switched the power supply to the voltage generator (the power supply was a black box and also carried the ON-OFF for 3-4 seconds, so at any time can also be transformed away from voltage control and vice versa).


    Hi Cipolla - I got there with the parallel R/L before you!


    I agree entirely about the high voltage AC (which I also suggested). Needed for plasma ignition, and a good way to push power in if you don't want to do it by switching the power supply to CI.

  • So...As forecast by me and Alan Smith, the demo will not end the debate. No matter how good the experiment the skeptics will stick to their belief that Rossi is a fraud until working units are on sale.


    The measurement of energy produced was indisputable. The measurement of energy in was less so, but still valid. The unknowns included the waveform, the high voltage pulse to start the process and whether there was feedback from the QX that controlled the power pack. The waveform of the test with the reactor replaced by a conductor provides some clues. The large clumsy power pack reflects the complexity of this.


    That the power pack used 60 W cooling provides the skeptics with endless opportunities for mocking the demo, but I don't buy that power was magically used to heat the water. This will get sorted out relatively quickly.


    The very small size of the QX was a surprise, particularly given the larger dimensions stated earlier. Not sure that these dimensions aren't a result of Rossi protecting his IP.


    All things considered, it looks like more engineering development is still needed and it will be at least a year before any mass production. New technology takes time. Boeing took forty years to develop the V22 before one was sold.


    I thought the demo might be some early marketing effort, but it looks like it was more for potential investors.

  • In fact, there is no need to resort parasitic currents losses.
    Rossi may have simply used a resistance of 1mm in diameter of 30mm long to about 1000 Ohm. In parallel he has placed an inductor of about 10-20 mH, 0.3A which is very small and can fit inside the "exchanger". etc etc

    That is nonsense. How can he possibly make money from such a scam? This is not for the general public to invest in, but for venture capitalists who will be able to do their own due diligence - like measure the voltage across the reactor.

  • The reality is that Rossi could have made measurements to avoid all these uncertainties, but he chose not to. He wants the uncertainty for some reason. And unfortunately, I am one that thinks that such obvious desire to introduce and perpetuate uncertainty is not a sign of good will nor intellectual honesty. Time to move on.