# MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY

• and a kinda-sorta flat velocity profile with a 48 sample average of anemometer points of 3.69 m/s.

What does that mean? I do not understand the statement. Is 3.69 m/s the average? Plus-minus how much?

• What does that mean? I do not understand the statement. Is 3.69 m/s the average? Plus-minus how much?

3.69 m/s is the average, with an uncertainty of +/- 0.32 m/s

• 3.69 m/s is the average, with an uncertainty of +/- 0.32 m/s

Ah. That seems reasonably close to Mizuno's results in Fig. 3, for the 8th and 9th steps (~3.4 to ~3.6 W). The uncertainty in the 3.6 W step looks a little bigger than that. Just eyeballing it:

https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTincreasede.pdf

(The numbers in this graph are a little confusing because power happens to be about the same as the velocity, both ~3.5.)

• Ah. That seems reasonably close to Mizuno's results in Fig. 3, for the 8th and 9th steps (~3.4 to ~3.6 W). The uncertainty in the 3.6 W step looks a little bigger than that. Just eyeballing it:

https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTincreasede.pdf

(The numbers in this graph are a little confusing because power happens to be about the same as the velocity, both ~3.5.)

I should clarify that is the instrument uncertainty.

The range is from 2.15 (at the edge, the only one point that is less than 2.89 m/s) to a maximum of 4.49 m/s. The majority of anemometer measurement points fall between 3.5 and 4.2 m/s. The program was supposed to export a csv file of all the measurements, and claimed that it did, but I have no idea where the file actually went...

Here is a photo of my notes. (The fan blades are approaching the viewer at the bottom of the circle)

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## Images

• The range is from 2.15 (at the edge, the only one point that is less than 2.89 m/s) to a maximum of 4.49 m/s. The majority of anemometer measurement points fall between 3.5 and 4.2 m/s.

I see. I thought you meant the measurements. How close to the edge was 2.15 m/s?

It sounds like it is not as uniform as Mizuno's. I don't know why, but I wouldn't worry about if I were you.

Mizuno's 3.6 W reading is not very uniform, as you see.

• I see. I thought you meant the measurements. How close to the edge was 2.15 m/s?

It sounds like it is not as uniform as Mizuno's. I don't know why, but I wouldn't worry about if I were you.

Mizuno's 3.6 W reading is not very uniform, as you see.

If the 2.15 point was more unstable, I might have chalked it up as an outlier. However it was pretty stable. Not sure what that is about.

Overall, I am fairly happy with these results. They seem to be in line with what Mizuno reports, so at least now I am now on the right page.

• If the 2.15 point was more unstable, I might have chalked it up as an outlier. However it was pretty stable. Not sure what that is about.

I think it means you have a laminar flow. It is stable and smaller at the edges. That's just what the figure people sent me shows (p. 17):

https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTincreasedea.pdf

It does not have to be exactly even and parabolic to be laminar.

• 4. We hope to keep D2 out of the Mass Spec by using a cryo-trap- not shown here. This is designed to stop D2 getting into the MS because it's hard to discriminate between D2 and He - and we are on the hunt for helium.

I have been in discussion with MKS regarding the He/D2 issue. They tell me it is possible to resolve the 2 but it is tricky. It is down to differences in ionisation energy. It is more difficult to resolve small amounts of He in D2 then the other way round, and does also depend on the exact type of MS you have.

Interesting one with the cryo-trap. What sort of temperature does that run at if it stops D"?

• helium: m= 4.0026 amu

D2 m= 4.0282 amu

Resolving them with a mass spectrometer is very tricky, very, very tricky.

But if the residual gas is subjected to high frequency high voltage excitation (plasma globe supply)

the optical spectra are as different as chalk and cheese.

• StevieH The cryo trap is filled with activated carbon grains and submerged in a dry-ice/alcohol bath at -78C - the D2 is adsorbed by the carbon, the He is not.

• Cute. I was thinking physical rather than chemical.

Why bother at all with D2 when you can take it out of the equation.

• Some people have reported that the Pd is so hard, it does not rub off onto the Ni mesh. Ashraf Imam suggested that annealing Pd for two hours at 650 C will soften it. An inert atmosphere, like argon, ought to be used for the annealing to avoid oxidation.

Some people have reported that the Pd is so hard, it does not rub off onto the Ni mesh. Ashraf Imam suggested that annealing Pd for two hours at 650 C will soften it. An inert atmosphere, like argon, ought to be used for the annealing to avoid oxidation.

• Some people have reported that the Pd is so hard, it does not rub off onto the Ni mesh. Ashraf Imam suggested that annealing Pd for two hours at 650 C will soften it. An inert atmosphere, like argon, ought to be used for the annealing to avoid oxidation.

Could it not also be the case that, per AlanG's work, they might not be getting effective scraper geometry by mesh preparation?

Rather than assuming it is hard Pd that is the problem, has anyone actually tested it with an indentor?

Or noted the desireable difference after annealing?

# Rolled thin Pd and Pd–Ag membranes for hydrogen separation and production

## Abstract

Thin palladium and palladium alloy membrane tubes with thickness up to 50 μm have been produced. These metal membranes, used as tube permeators in catalytic membrane reactors for the water gas shift reaction, are thinner than the commercial ones (100–150 μm) and have both complete selectivity to hydrogen and good durability. A manufacturing procedure consisting of several steps of cold-rolling and annealing the metal foils coupled with a simple welding technique of the tubes has been carried out in order to produce the prototype thin palladium permeators. The procedure of rolling and annealing the palladium and palladium alloy foils is described in detail: the work hardening upon rolling of the palladium and palladium alloy foils has been controlled by means of hardness measurements. Model studies and tests on the membranes and the CMRs for the water gas shift reaction have demonstrated the possibility to separate and recover highly pure hydrogen in energy applications such as nuclear fusion fuel cycle and fuel cells fuelling.

• Rather than assuming it is hard Pd that is the problem, has anyone actually tested it with an indentor?

I believe someone did this. Also, they looked up the hardness of Pd and found that it varies more than we realized.

• I believe someone did this. Also, they looked up the hardness of Pd and found that it varies more than we realized.

We discussed this back in July, when the R20 paper was first posted. Here's what I wrote in reply to Jed's earlier comment:

Mohs hardness refers to the scratch resistance - the ability of harder material to scratch softer material. The Brinell hardness (and similar Vickers scale) refers to indentation hardness - penetration of a calibrated indenter into the tested material. So while Ni is apparently harder to indent, it is softer to scratching (removal of material) by Pd.

Perhaps annealing the Pd before the rubbing would reduce the possible tendency to remove Ni rather than depositing Pd on its surface.

"Palladium is easily annealed with the use of a fuel-oxygen torch, with natural gas or propane and oxygen recommended. Flux is not necessary. Using the high-heat soldering surface and shade five or higher eye protection, adjust the torch to a slightly reducing flame, heat the palladium to a mild orange color, and hold for 10 to 30 seconds. The thicker the metal, the longer you must anneal it."

and a comment there: "Anneal to dull red and then leave to cool to room temp, also stops it from cracking."

I followed that procedure using a small propane torch, with good results.

AlanG

• I followed that procedure using a small propane torch, with good results.

Good. Thanks for reposting.

• "Anneal to dull red and then leave to cool to room temp, also stops it from cracking."

The metalworkers approach to this is sometimes to drop the hot metal into a dry quartz sand-bath and cover it. This slows cooling and also reduces surface oxidation, though it is unlikely to be neccesary in this case.

• Just a thought. When the succesfull Mizuno meshes were handled after removal, I wonder if they were bent much, and if so, were they brittle?