Quote from Wyttenbach

A vaccine is just a dream. Not here for any corona type since more than 50 years now.

That is complete bullshit. There are vaccines for SARS and other recently emerged coronavirus. There are vaccines for influenza. More to the point, every single expert in vaccines believes there will be a vaccine for COVID-19. They differ in how long it will take, but not one of them says what you say. So who are you, anyway? An expert in vaccines? Where did you get that information?

One thing that cold fusion taught me is that people like you -- coming out of left field and saying the experts are wrong and you know better -- are wrong. In this case, I myself have no knowledge of vaccines, but I bet the experts are right, and I bet you you have no basis for your claims. I bet you know nothing about the subject, and you cannot point to any evidence. You are suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect. You might have a PhD, but so do Robert Park, the editors at Nature and many other leading opponents of cold fusion. The thing is, they have no idea what the experiments, observations and conclusions are. They have no business disputing experts such as Bockris or Miles, any more than the cop on the corner or the deli sandwich guy does.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Live is - always was - a risk. Who no longer has the strength to master it or is not willing to take it on, can stay home as long as he is able to finance it... This is the most painful path to die a much cruder death!

As you say, this is about a devilish injection of fear to force compliance. This is the old tool of terror. Spectacle. Trauma breeds a slavish request for safety. We want their authority to impose safety. How many years should civilization stop because of a moderately severe virus for which there are rational and conservative mitigations? 99% of people will echo back in their minds - "till we have a cure, a vaccine." But my friend, you can't stop death? I don't care please stop death it is worth my life.

You can't stop such masterful programming, it is masterful and vicious.

At least we can laugh at ourselves.

I joke around on here, but I want to make a public service announcement.

No matter how smart you are, your mind is affected by what you see, hear, and experience around you. Your emotional system is real, and do not think you are immune to feeling anxious, confused, or just plain broken. You cannot think your way out of feeling. You are a human being (mind, body, soul) not a circuit board. If this virus talk is getting to you, or the isolation is getting to you, please take it seriously. Stop looking at the latest on the virus, and thinking about the psychological games being played on you (what is real, what is not real). Leave the digital technologies for a day or more. If you need help, reach out to me by private message and I will send you free resources that can help you rebalance your system through neuroplasticity and achieve insight.

Prince was a smart man (short video )

Quote from seven_of_twenty

According to you, so does Andrea Rossi. Zelenko's claims are completely unsubstantiated and the data are of extremely poor quality. Anyone can get good results with anything provided that they treat people who are not going to become very sick anyway.

If I was very sick with CV I would try

the DR Zelenko remedy rather than

be dead waiting fo good data.

Quote from sam12

try

the DR Zelenko remedy

Yes, but I would want an EKG

Quote from Alan Smith

They are starting volunteer trials of a new vaccine in the UK in June. Apparently it is based on a monkey virus with some corona spike proteins grafted on.

Germany started just today (200 people involved) some in the US this week too. But all say it's at least 1.5 years until a vaccine will be ready for deployment. Only drunken dreamers think in miracles. What they start now is "nailing" volunteers. I just hope they all survive. Phase one is just looking how many can bear it. How many develop true antibodies and what concentration of anti bodies is expressed. If only 50% develops enough anti bodies the would already be a good sign. Then they can go on with the usual next improvement step.

At the end is also the question how long do the antibodies survive? The same question also arises for people that mastered corona!

Quote from JedRothwell

That is complete bullshit. There are vaccines for SARS and other recently emerged coronavirus. There are vaccines for influenza. More to the point, every single expert in vaccines believes there will be a vaccine for COVID-19. They differ in how long it will take, but not one of them says what you say. So who are you, anyway? An expert in vaccines? Where did you get that information?

Jed I highly estimate what you do for LENR. But medicine is definitely not your competence. May be you listen to often/much to your brotherhood bodies.

It is you that claims/dreams something inexistent does exist. There e.g. is a vaccine for ebola. But it works only for about 70%. If you have one for SARS, just lab tested, or tested with the few survivors, then it is absolute of no value as the test case number is way to low.

Unluckily the value of a vaccine for a short time deadly virus must be tested during a disease. In a case like tuberculosis its different. It's a chronic illness that doesn't kill you within 20 days. The worst thing that might happen is forced vaccination and at the end still 30% do get it with more or less the same overall mortality we see today. And please do now not start to believe that this 30% means the other 70% do not get it and you have herd immunity... This only means that 70% to not get sick. Compared to 50% as today without vaccination!

If your dream is just too sell a vaccine then please tells us what your dream vaccine exactly can do!

I personally think the winner will be an antilock virus blocker that mimics the cellular receptor and optimally fits corona spikes. The same we have for AIDS. (And of course Remdesivir is not!)

Watch Out for 'COVID Toes'

Dubbed "COVID toes," the condition might occur either on the feet or hands and is characterized by red or purple discoloration

https://www.newsmax.com/health…oms/2020/04/22/id/964196/

Quote from JedRothwell

Study finds no benefit, higher death rate in patients taking hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19

Yet another dismal study misreported widely. There was no matching of patients except that all were very ill. Also, they did not follow the French recommendation to use azithromycin. My guess is that a) the patients could have been too sick and their organs already too ravaged, for them to benefit. And the increased death rate among those who got HCQ could be due to giving it to sicker patients to begin with. There was no matching or randomization of patients between those given the drug and those not. Terrible science. So, while this is not good news, a lot more work needs to be done and reported before we jump to conclusions.

The other study often cited was the Brazilian one. That one used the wrong drug in the wrong dose. What were those bozos thinking? What did they expect?

Is it too much to expect at least one, large prospective study with matching, blinding and controls? And studying less sick as well as very sicjk patients? And using the recommended drug combination and probably zinc as well? Maybe in a few months. Maybe not, the way this dumb world is going.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

What were those bozos thinking?

having taught college (several pre med classes) I know there are a lot of bozos out there. 50% of the doctors graduated in the lower half of their class.

Quote from Alan Smith

They are starting volunteer trials of a new vaccine in the UK in June. Apparently it is based on a monkey virus with some corona spike proteins grafted on.

Phase 1 testing in the US: https://www.kpwashingtonresear…rus-vaccine-study-seattle

I am pretty sure phase 2 will start soon and many more research centers will be involved.

A very good overview paper of corona damage. Must read for doctors...

https://www.sciencemag.org/new…e-through-body-brain-toes

The "Veterans' Study" discussed above, and the media presentation is analyzed in the following video --

Coronavirus: Debunking The Hydroxychloroquine 'Controversy' (Dr. Chris Martenson)

People who do not believe in HCQ treatment certainly are free to decline it.

Shane D. posted a video claiming that the government has been a failure at developing technology (and at various other things). Here is a partial list of some major technology U.S. government either developed on its own, or paid for:

Canals, telegraphs, steamships, railroads, punch card based business systems (invented by Hollerith for the Census Bureau), roads, highways and traffic control (without which cars would not exist), automobile safety (without which hundreds of thousands of people would die every year), airplanes (paid for), nuclear power, computers, most computer languages, semiconductors and integrated circuits (paid for, mainly by NASA and DOD), space exploration, satellite weather forecasting and GPS navigation, modern computerized statistical techniques (invented by my mother and others in the Federal government), the internet, the human genome project. Also, sewers, sewage treatment and other public health measures that have saved more lives than hospitals. Nearly all 20th century medical science (conducted or paid for). Nearly all 20th century physics (paid for). Cold fusion (the British government paid Fleischmann -- he, Storms, Miles, Mizuno, and most other major researchers were government employees for their entire careers).

The U.S. government has contributed more to fundamental technology and science than any other institution or corporation on earth. The government developed the first computers and paid for the second and third generation. Right through to 1970 it was the biggest customer for computers and integrated circuits. It developed -- or paid for -- computer languages such as COBOL and Basic. Later, Bill Gates developed a version of Basic to launch his career, using the computer technology paid for by Uncle Sam. Everything he did was based on extending existing technology that was invented by Uncle Sam. I did the same thing, and so did many others. We may deserve our money, but the technology we used to earn it belongs to the nation and the taxpayers, and they also deserve a large chunk of it. No modern technology is developed in a vacuum. Gates and I are nothing like 19th century inventors such as Edison or Bell, who came up with brand new technology that owed little or nothing to the past, or to government research.

Quote from Shane D.

Can you put some numbers to the "many die"? I am looking right now at the latest statistics for the % of young dying, and would like to compare with what you have.

What statistics are you looking at? In New York City, 27% of the dead were below age 65. See:

https://www.worldometers.info/…rus-age-sex-demographics/

New York has the healthiest and thinnest population in the U.S. In other parts of the U.S., where overweight and obese people are more common, many people in their 30s and 40s will die at the same rate as healthy 65-year-olds (3.6%). (Do not be confused by this; it does not mean that 3.6% of the dead were 65; it means 3.6% of people age 65 who get sick, die.)

So, if we let this get out of hand, and it infects 60% of the population, ~200 million people will get sick, and ~4 million will die, including about 1 million young people. More than 1 million if obesity is as bad a comorbidity factor as some experts fear. Those are rough approximations. If the wave of deaths comes quickly and overwhelms the hospitals, many more than 1 million young people will die. Around 20% of young patients have to be hospitalized. They survive because they get good medical care, oxygen, and so on. If there is no room in the hospitals they will die at home in large numbers. Out of the 200 million who get sick, many will never be able to climb stairs or run again, many will die young, and many young people will suffer from blood clots, strokes, and amputations, which doctors have recently learned are caused by the coronavirus. See:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22…s-young-adults/index.html

The number of young people dead, incapacitated, and who die young will be roughly on the same scale as WWII, taking into account the population.

Quote from Shane D.

Certainly you would agree that had the Chinese acted responsibly, we would not be in this position.

Perhaps, but I do not see what relevance that has to present-day policies, and whether we should allow movie theaters to re-open in Georgia on Monday.

If Trump had acted responsibly, we would have enough medical supplies, and we would have only a few hundred cases per day, the way they do in Korea (taking into account the population size).

Quote from Shane D.

What a bad situation we are in, where we have to judge who has it more "horrible"; those dying in an ICU, from suicide, drug overdose, domestic abuse, or starvation in Africa.

Dying in an ICU from coronavirus cannot be helped. The doctors do the best they can. The increase in suicide and drug abuse in the U.S. is tied to the growing gap between the rich and poor. Since the 1970s, the 1% has taken everything not nailed down. They own nearly all assets. (https://www.politico.com/magaz…rats-108014#ixzz3hr7nlghY) Starvation in Africa, the U.S. and anywhere else can easily be prevented. Just give people food. Charge them for it later. I cannot think of a problem more easily solved. The world is awash in food. The U.S. is the largest producer. The food will rot and it will have to be thrown away if we don't give it to people, because they can't afford to buy it. It will cost us nothing to give it out now, and charge people a year from now, because the world is also awash in money so much that the U.S. government now pays negative interest. That is to say, people pay the government to take their money.

Preliminary results will be released next week.

New York researcher says preliminary results of hydroxychloroquine study are ready, but state hasn't released them

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22…lts-unreleased/index.html

Quote from Shane D.

"In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 11 per 100,000 in the population.

Where does that statement come from? It conflicts with the data from China, Japan, Korea and every other country I have seen. The mortality rate is never less than 0.1% for any age group, except children, even with the best healthcare. Also, the death rate is not the main issue. There are always more people in a young cohort than an older one. There has to be; some fraction dies every year. Also, from 18 to 64, where the death rate is pretty close to 0.1%, is a span of 46 years. There are only 20 years of life after age 65. So even if young people die at only 0.1%, and old people at 3.5%, the absolute number of dead young people is not 1/35 of the old people. It is higher, because there are more young people. It is, as I said, 27.6% of the dead:

https://www.worldometers.info/…rus-age-sex-demographics/

Quote from Shane D.

Even going by your link, the truly young, and healthy (without underlying health issues), are largely unaffected in NYC, as they are throughout the world.

In New York state, 20,354 people have died, including 5,618 people under 64. That is not "unaffected." That is like having 40 airplanes full of young people crash. That is in one month. If it gets out of hand and goes for 4 months, that will be 20,000 young people in New York alone. 4.5% of the deaths will be in the 18 to 44 age group. That's 180,000 people. 23% will be age 45 to 64. That would be just under 1 million dead. I do not consider that "old." Those people are still in the prime of life. Many are also still raising children, working and paying taxes. It would be an economic and social catastrophe to lose so many people of that age.

The 2 million victims over age 75 would be terrible, not but not so much of an economic catastrophe.