LENR Theories Discussion.

  • A lot of words.

    Nobody pays attention to how the mass of the cold fusion generator changes. Is it decreasing or increasing?

  • The way Arata acted, he was not far wrong when he said people were out to get him. It was a self-fulfilling prediction.

    One of his former junior colleagues told me that he sabotaged an experiment they were performing together because he was desperate to prove that the premise (not Arata's) it was based upon was incorrect.

  • I don't think anybody is disputing energy/matter equivalence or conversion - publicly at least.

    This is where science begins, when two truths contradict each other.

    Mass is not equivalent to energy! For example, the mass of a closed system can change, but the energy cannot.

    In Einstein's formula, there is energy on both sides. Where did you get the idea that in Einstein’s formula the mass and speed of light squared cannot change?

  • Yes. You will find them in any advanced textbook.


    Decreasing, obviously. The decrease cannot be measured with any instrument, so there is no way to confirm it directly. It has been confirmed in particle experiments, not cold fusion.

    Obviously, or exactly. Oh yes! This has not yet been written about in textbooks.

    For example, the Sun is a generator of nuclear fusion. Imagine, the mass of the Sun is increasing!

    Planet Earth is a generator of cold nuclear fusion and the mass of the Earth is also increasing.

  • My mental Image of Storms' theories is his "hydroton" - a chain of H's anchored by a metal,
    eg Ni-H-H-H-Ni
    where oscillations in the chain bring H's close together.

    I also thought this chain was between opposite walls of a crack, but recent figures show H's aligned along a trough in the metal.

    Am I out of date?

  • No at all but why you postulate an HH reaction and not simply an NIH generated by this principle ?

    in the same way, what kind of frequency should be expected to generate this reaction ? How many eV that could implie ?

  • Jean-Francois Geneste paper is theory of how to explain small amount of excess heat for LENR given a knowledge of physics prohibits an actual nuclear reaction. He is simply speculating that entropy can be converted to heat. The premise that no nuclear reaction occurs in any instance of "LENR" is false.


    Obviously, since mass balance and stoichiometry on Santilli's intermediate fusion provides a reaction equation with 99.9% nucleon mass accountably, then a nuclear transmutation does occur in this instance. The thermodynamics on this balanced equation indicate a change in binding energy (mass loss). Further, actual energy balance appears in US 2012/0033775 A1 in lines 0074 to 0078, which is 2871 BTU excess heat or 1.63 COP. Further, since one can predict the perfect efficiency of mass to energy conversion from mass loss to energy conversion per Einstein's equation coupled with the balance reaction equation, it is possible to compare the energy produced to theory. That comparison indicates that only about 4/10000 of the free energy become enthalpy. Hence per Gibb's free energy equation 9996/10000 of free energy is loss in the entropy term. It would be irresponsible to claim 9996/10,000 of this energy loss is due to disorganization (common explanation of entropy). The more responsible claim is that some undefined mass is produced to balance the free energy equation. Indeed, this undefined mass produces the images on film observed by many cold fusion experiments but particularly the images of Matsumoto which he calls blackholes. If a mass is produced which could account for entropy, the entropy (mass) conversion to energy could be expected. Indeed, the observation of Rout et al indicate a massive radiation from cold fusion. Further, LEC experiments indicate conversion of cold fusion radiation to electricity.


    It seems therefore that Jean-Francois Geneste paper contributes nothing to the understand of LENR.

  • I'm not postulating anything. My chatbots aren't coming up with a definitive answer to:

    Can you give me a very short summary of ed storms' hydroton. Specifically, for Ni-H-H-Ni is the lenr reaction between H atoms in the chain, or between an H and a Ni?

    Two say H-H, , one says unclear. one says both. eg copilot

    Ni-H-H-Ni Interaction: Specifically, for the case of Ni-H-H-Ni, the LENR reaction occurs between hydrogen atoms in the chain (H-H interaction) and also between hydrogen and nickel (H-Ni interaction).

  • But the frequency remains the key parameter...

    I'm not postulating anything. My chatbots aren't coming up with a definitive answer to:

    Can you give me a very short summary of ed storms' hydroton. Specifically, for Ni-H-H-Ni is the lenr reaction between H atoms in the chain, or between an H and a Ni?

    Two say H-H, , one says unclear. one says both. eg copilot

    Ni-H-H-Ni Interaction: Specifically, for the case of Ni-H-H-Ni, the LENR reaction occurs between hydrogen atoms in the chain (H-H interaction) and also between hydrogen and nickel (H-Ni interaction).

  • Here's another from Storms . Ed has been busy closing down his lab, so I wrote this version myself, having condensed it from a 28 page paper. Please don't complain too much about my choices! This and other theories are on the ISCMNS website too, at https://iscmns.org/science/theories


    A New Understanding of Cold Fusion

    Dr. Edmund Storms

    To see cold fusion we must look in places less ordered than a face-centered-cubic crystal lattice inside a piece of palladium. Because these sites are all chemically identical, if one could be occupied all would be occupied, and if all the nuclei needed were present, the lattice structure would be broken. These logical considerations eliminate lattice vacancies as the site of the fusion process.

    There are imperfects in the other layers of a crystal lattice (dislocation sites). George Miley's paper "Condensed Matter "Cluster" Reaction in LENR." He found "Cluster regions can have hydrogen densities approaching1024/cc (See Figure 2). His conclusion "This paper makes a strong case that condensed matter deuterium cluster formed in dislocation loops are one way to achieve nuclear reactive sites in LENR electrodes."

    No at all but why you postulate an HH reaction and not simply an NIH generated by this principle ?

    in the same way, what kind of frequency should be expected to generate this reaction ? How many eV that could implie ?

    My view is that the dislocation site differs from lattice sites because it has dimensions different from lattice site. Hence, if the dislocation site is a wavequide, then the frequency of light that it traps is different from lattice sites. If boson interaction with hydrogen cause condensation of the cluster, then the frequencies of light in the waveguide is causing the nuclear active site. Then, the wavelengths would be very specific. As I have proposed a boson condensed quantum object likely has quantum levels which follow Pharis Williams phat equation. So, the specific energies (frequencies of light) are E=n2(Hydrogen ionization energy~ 13.6 eV).


    When the specific frequencies of light and hydrogen are brought together without a metal lattice, a boson condensed cluster would still form. However, the reaction would also radiate the above specific frequencies of light. For example, the abstract for "H2O-based Solid Fuel Power Source based on H by HOH Catalysis" Mills of then Blacklight Power Inc proposed hydrinos where n= 1/2,1/3,1/4,...1/p. Then states "The transition of H to a stable hydrino state having a binding energy of p2(13.6 eV). So, substitute n for p and one has the same equation as above.


    Because of this exact correspondence to between hydrinos and frequences needed for boson condensed quantum objects, I believe hydrino do not exist rather, a catalyst forms that can cause fusion.

  • Well, i don't try to convince noone.. However i'm deeply working of frequencies in the case of my "Rossi's investigations.

    Good or bad, this is my work.

    And in this way, most of the postulates here are more or less in relation with a common understanding of the nucleus which is not the good one to me to really explain the Lenr reactions.

    Apparently it well exists a long range interaction between electrons and their nucleus which isn't really a kind of "electron screening" postulated by so many.

    I consider rather the possibility of a kind of cycloidal trajectory for them.. it seems to be linked with the quark behavior which isn't to me currently enough well understood.


    When I pluck a guitar string I don't have to apply a frequency .. the length, weight and tension will pick its own frequency.

  • It is decreasing. Where did you read that it is increasing? What evidence is there for that?

    Not everything can be read in textbooks. I came to this conclusion by studying nuclear fusion in stars, in the Earth, in Jupiter, and especially during the explosion of supernova SN1987A. The mass of the Sun and Earth increases by an amount proportional to the Hubble constant. Jupiter is also increasing in mass and wants to become the second star in our system. Half the stars in space are double. Strange, right?

    During the explosion of supernova SN1987A, 99% of the star's mass turned into neutrino radiation! According to mass spectroscopy, cold nuclear fusion occurs in the remnants of supernova 1987A and it turns into a neutron star.

    And how often do you think supernova explosions occur? That's right, with the frequency of the Hubble constant. The Hubble constant is the oscillation frequency of the Universe!

  • The historical record shows that Joseph Papp"s Noble Gas Engine ran for hours or maybe days with only an external energy input from a spark. Also, the engine had a deficit of heat compared to a normal internal combustion engine. Based on the discussion here, I don't see any problem with the view that the energy transfer was through kinetic energy rather than heat.

  • The historical record shows that Joseph Papp"s Noble Gas Engine ran for hours or maybe days with only an external energy input from a spark. Also, the engine had a deficit of heat compared to a normal internal combustion engine. Based on the discussion here, I don't see any problem with the view that the energy transfer was through kinetic energy rather than heat.

    What is heat? This is the kinetic energy of the mechanical movement of material particles.

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