Posts by Wyttenbach

    If you do not feel unhappy with the Penon data, because you see nothing wrong with 0.0 bar pressure or the same flow rate day after day, then you disagree with I.H. and with me.

    One of the pressure sensors failed very early in the test, as written I an AR e-mail to all IH people. But all instruments were doubled – also the thermocouples.

    Why Penon still used the failed one is a mystery. In the same AR's e-mail, he writes about a COP of 33.

    I would ask everybody to reevaluate their statements based on these facts...known by IH!

    This first Rossi email after the 1MW startup could be interesting.

    The Frankie's combine 16 reactors, which seem to be much more efficient, than a single reactor. LENR is a surface reaction. The kinetic reacation products (second step "slow" muons & H* ) are expelled outward. Such an aditional source of energy (cat & mouse..) could be the reason for the strongly elevated COP.

    Edit: Out of 214/E32


    Zephir_AWT : Molecular sieves have a diameter of about 0.5 nanometers. Thats exactly the cavity size that is needed to form stable hydrogen plasma rotators, which are able to store enough energy to support LENR.

    If sombody could combine NiLiH with a molecular sieve would be a great experiment. The problem with standard NiLiH LENR is the production of tiny cavities of size 0.5nanometers!

    Traveling backward in time.

    axil : If you ever studied theory of cognition, then you should know that there is no time. Time is just a mathematical simplification of a "physical reality", which in fact is caused by a partial set of ordered events. Thus no backwards travelling in time is ever possible in 3D+T universe.

    Only minimal measurable events have no time, as they are the markers for the so called time.

    Thus if physicists talk of time reversal, then they mean that a very tiny set of minimal events can run in two directions, which can be along the macroscopic time.

    @THH: Would be nice to get some DOCK references for your claims. Especially about the happiness of paying 89$...

    Darden testimony.…loads/2017/01/0214.10.pdf

    "Andrea, the
    19 problem is not money.· We're happy to pay money if we
    20 have technology that works.· We don't have technology

    · · · Q.· ·Did you put that -- that subsequent offer

    13 in writing?

    14· · · · A.· ·I don't know.· I mean, it was -- did we say

    15 to him in writing somewhere, "We can't build these
    16 units.· We want to build these units.· Help us build

    17 these units.· Let's get something going."· I don't know

    18 but we -- I'm sure that we said to him, "Andrea, the

    19 problem is not money.·

    @THH: Next time quote the context too. Now everybody can see how Darden fakes the day...

    Nothing written!! Thus you have no formal proof that they ever told this (paying additional money) to Rossi!

    bdw: Did you notice the tricky rhetorics of Darden? Did you put that .. in writing ?.. I mean, .. was, .. did say .. Finally he tells something else... --> no answer!

    That's where you can find that 1) Murray was brought on subsequent to Barker as another tester with additional experience and skill

    Here about the high skills of Murray (A.) out of 215/3

    Q.· · How do you measure COP?· What is the formula ·to measure COP?

    A.· · Power in over power out -- I'm sorry.· Let me ·think about that.· Power out over power in.

    Q.· · Okay.· So --

    A.· · It could be energy in over, I'm sorry, energy ·out over energy in as well.· I mean it depends on -- I ·never saw the actual computational worksheets of ·Mr. Penon, so I don't –........

    Murray might be a good project manager, but even simple physics seems to be far away!

    I had absolutely no knowledge of Rossi's shenanigans with fake companies, invoices for pretend energy delivery, or invisible mezzanine heat exchangers

    I made (2015) one google query and found out, that JM was owned by AR's lawyer, way before the test ended. May be you were sleeping at that time...

    I agree about the fake invoices, that is great fairy tales! The same holds for any Energy > 300kW.

    Anyway, they tested several reactors for a lot longer than three months. I

    Can You please point us to the DOCK? We would like to understand!

    < Otherwise we must assume that you still repeat the FUD (DN40, low flow-meter, etc.) that you were fed by Darden/Murray. >

    That is pretty understandable. From testimony IH were walking a tightrope with Rossi. They did not want to give into his demands for a GPT before they had got stuff working, because they thought he was very possibly a chancer who had nothing. But they also wanted to keep him sweet, if possible, to make sure that if he does have something he is cooperative with their efforts to get it to work. If his stuff did work for real they would be happy to give him his $89M whether the GPT is carried out or not, and would be happy to treat the test Rossi was doing as the GPT. This strategy does not have seem to have worked very well - but you can see how they would want to let Rossi run his test that was not the GPT, without emphasising that it was not the GPT.

    @THH: Would be nice to get some DOCK references for your claims. Especially about the happiness of paying 89$...

    The question is: Did they also use a "Rossi-built" measurement method?

    If so, then it's obvious they measured the same COP.

    The tiger modules were built (by IH) after the Lugano test. They would be crazy to use the old test method.

    May be somebody can dig out a reference to an IH deposition, where they clearly state that they re-tested an unchanged Rossi built reactor. The test with COP 1 made by Darden & Murray was the kick-of of the Darden/Murray FUD story. We need a better reference!

    People who are not deluded can see that Murray and others plainly said they have proof the flow meter was installed in a half-empty pipe, and there were many other problems with it. There is not the slightest chance it was correct. As Smith pointed out, Rossi did not leave that to chance, in any case. He installed the hidden pump, giving him another way to cheat, in case his flow meter fraud was not sufficient.

    This (wrong flowmeter position) has been refuted by Murray's deposition. This was a key part of Darden FUD plan.

    Corrosion in pipes is not a trivial topic.

    How can you say that partial corrosion (???? seen from outside ????) if any is evidence that the return pipe was half empty ?

    Does anybody know for sure that Rossi used a new flow-meter?? -And not his old one, which heavily suffered during old tests?

    I disagree. That exchange needs no further exploration. IH brought in Murray because Dameron, after earlier *apparent* successes, was not seeing any excess heat. TD even had a "come to Jesus meeting" with Rossi to tell him it was not working. Murray was much more suited than Dameron as Vaughn testifies. So of course Murray would try and improve on what did not work before. Why would he be so stupid as to go down the same failed path as before?

    Shane D. : It would be very kind of you when this could be undermined by a reference to a deposition. Otherwise it's just FUD.

    As mentioned before, the expected COP was 11 and with 11kW input we should never see more than about 120kW. Thus no cooling is needed. (One old test plan had indeed only an annotated flow of 3600 liters! Read Murray's deposition.)

    But if some magic happened like extensive SSM mode or improved fuel/stimulation method then, may be, AR had to add a heat exchanger.

    I believe that 1MW was just an IH-marketing-hip, AR had to support. It is anyway not a killing argument, as the contract clearly states COP and reliability.

    That is strange. It is almost like the document was not dated correctly and they tried to back date it.

    @OG: Try to download the original! Then you will see that Murray got two e-mails from Anesser, one with the E-cat-plan (earlier) and one with the testplan.

    Murray was completely puzzeled, because he has been fooled by Darden, that never gave him these e-mails (plans)... Finally Murray messed around in the two papers, what proves he didn't know them!

    IH had everything, including the plan (all delivered by Penon), with the correct position of the flowmeter. They forced Murray to produce FUD!

    I would start to ask, what kind of game Darden was playing. - The Rossi game we know since years ...

    Why did Darden introduce Murray into this story?

    In fact Darden played with poor Murray and You now will read how Anesser played with Murray. Darden feed Murray with all the FUD he later gave JED. Darden never gave Murray any e-mail/phone number of Rossi/Pennon/Fabiani. Even worse he did hide all factory/test plans from Murray eyes. Murray had to organize a conspiracy meeting with Barry West, just to get some data he eagerly wanted and IH had all the the time!!

    Murray learns from Anesser about what IH new... (e.g. the correct position of the flow meter.. Feb. 2015)


    · · Q.· · So why --

    · · · A.· · -- what is this. · · ·

    Q.· · Why is it that Industrial Heat didn't show ·that to you before? · · ·

    A.· · I have no idea. · · ·

    Q.· · They had it -- · · ·

    A.· · Yeah. · · ·

    Q.· · -- clearly. · · ·

    A.· · I mean it may have been one of the documents ·that was provided in the, you know, in the information I ·had, but I did not notice that. · · ·

    Q.· · Turning to the second page of this document, ·bates number IH00011097, not only does it identify the ·flow meter down at the bottom, does it not? · · ·

    A.· · It does, yeah. · · ·

    Q.· · But it also points to the location of the ·flow meter.· Do you see that in the diagram above? · · ·

    A.· · Yeah.· That's weird.· I actually have never

    noticed that before. · · ·

    Q.· · So had, had you wanted to, you could have ·taken a look at that and called Barry West and said, ·hey, look on the pipe, but you didn't? · · ·

    A.· · No.· We did not. · · · Q.· · And in fact, if you turn to the next page of ·this document, it lists all the other equipment that was ·being used, correct? · · ·

    A.· · Yeah.· And this is really where we started to ·have other issues.· For example, the digital manometer, ·Kelly -- or Keller, Type LEO 1, that's the device that ·only has an operational temperature up to 50 degrees ·Celsius on the steam line.· And furthermore, when you go ·down, this document was dated -- let me see what the ·date is on the front of this.· Oh, it's not dated.· Do ·we, do we know what the date is on this document? · · ·

    Q.· · E-mailed 5/28/15. · · ·

    A.· · No, no, no.· I'm saying when the, the ·document was actually produced to Industrial Heat ·originally. · · ·

    Q.· · 5 ? · · ·

    A.· · Oh, there it is.· I'm sorry.· There it is. ·Is it -- right here, 2/10/2015.· Now, if you look down ·here under identification of electrical measurement ·equipment and you look down there on the power analyzer,

    ·the thing that struck me was that the calibration date ·for the power analyzer is April 20, 2015.· Fully three ·months after this document was supposedly produced. · · ·

    Q.· · Actually, sir, I want you to look at ·something.· This is the plant start-up document, ·correct?

    A. Yeah. That's what I just asked, was –

    Randy Mills answered: The solution works so beautifully."

    What is the solution?

    At the time I analysed the system, I found that adding a static magent field would solve quite many problems. Adding two more design tricks with the elctrode then most things are fine...

    But you must really understand what is going on inside the cell...

    Just some interesting fact out of the Murray pressure meeting. IH (Dewey..) feared that they over pressured Rossi and...

    Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA

    Document 215-3

    Entered on FLSD Docket 03/23/2017 423

    Page 245 of

    Q.· · Okay.· And then Mr. Weaver sends you an ·e-mail July 22nd, says, "Agreed.· There's a high ·probability that R" -- is that Rossi? · · ·

    A.· · I presume.

    Q.· · -- "is going to screw up, screw up his deal." · · · A.· · Yeah, I don't know what Dewey was saying here, but.

    Q. Did you ask him what he was saying?

    A. No.

    Q. No, you didn't.

    A. No.

    Q. Okay.

    A. I get 100 e-mails a day, particularly from Dewey, so. ·

    Q. Okay.· Then it goes on to say "TD".· Who would that be?

    A. I believe that would be Tom Darden.

    Q. Okay.· So, "Tom Darden may try and change and lower the pressure on Rossi with a more simplified, lower profile plan B."

    A. Yes.

    Q.· · So they're going to bring the, bring the ·pressure down on Rossi -- · · ·

    A.· · No, I don't think that was -- · · ·

    Q.· · -- to change the status quo?

    · · · A.· · That is not what the, I, my belief is at this ·point -- again I'll go back.· Tom and John both insisted ·that if any possibility that this was working, they ·wanted us to be able to validate it, verify it, and ·reproduce it and, because that was the gateway to ·follow-on development activities.

    So what Tom, my recollection was that Tom ·said, well, why don't we just simplify this and do a ·much smaller test, get together with Mr. Rossi, come up ·with something that we can all simply test, and do that ·test so we could take that back and move forward with ·it, if we could produce it and validate it, verify it.

    So I believe at this point, and I wasn't ·directly involved, but what was, what was suggested to ·me was that potentially we could agree to do a smaller ·scale, simplified test.· And, and I think that the ·general conclusion from everybody was if we got any ·level of reliable performance, there would be a path ·forward without a doubt.

    The shouting does not help assess these things.

    @THH: There you are right: But it helps to keep the Forum clean of "mud" - a Murry word...

    I'm waiting for the funny moment, when Anesser, in front of the jury asks Darden: "Mr. Darden what was the COP you personally measured on the IH produced tiger modules?" Will he then continue to reproduce the mantra, which has been agreed on, in a white glove peoples session? Or will he say just as Murray said: "I dont know anymore? I'm guessing..."

    To make one prediction: The costs for producing shale oil has halved and is now below 25$/barrel. This party will no longer (strictly) oppose LENR. The military will also give up the opposition, as soon as the Russians/Chinese present their reactor. The only ones that remain opposed to LENR are the renewables investors - sad for Darden ...

    But they all make wrong assumptions: As we know, any E-cat has to pass nuclear certification regulations, what may last years. The second step of NiLiH LENR may produce muons, if they use the wrong fuel. This again will need fuel certification. Thus there is absolutely no reason for any foul play.

    In contrast, Miles Mathis has explained and derived many of the constants used in our most fundamental equations, including: G (the gravitational constant), planck's constant, the fine structure constant (see links above), c (the speed of light), Coulomb's constant (see here, here, and here), the Cosmological constant, epsilon (the permittivity of the vacuum) and others. He doesn't use a constant unless he knows what it means and why it's in the equation.

    joshg : MM is quite entertaining for non physicists. I never found something new on his page, just rearranged, known formulas and a lot (huge pile) of text. But go on, most of it is sound and you will learn a lot.

    R.Mills GUT-CP is “new” physics. He explains why the electron g-factor is “anomalous” as is it must be and much more. His theory is a huge leap ahead, but still not the final step.

    No, in his deposition, he definitely said he knows the pipe was not full. He is sure of that. (He could be wrong of course, but he thinks he knows.)

    @JED: I, in your situation, would definitely fall quiet. If you don't know how to read court documents, then repeating Murray FUD will definitely kill reputation...

    Murray prepared an IH/Layer internal FUD report that never was presented to the court: A. is Murray:

    1. MR. ANNESSER:· Well, if you plan on
    2. ·introducing a report prepared by him without having
    3. ·provided it to us before his deposition with plenty
    4. ·of time, then we're going to have other issues
    5. ·before the court.

    Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA

    Document 215-3

    Entered on FLSD Docket 03/23/2017 423

    Page 228 of

    ·BY MR. ANNESSER: · · · Q.· · Sir, sitting here today you don't know what ·the slope was?

    · · · A. I do not

    Q.· · The flow meter have been lower than -- · · ·

    A.· · Yeah. · · ·

    Q.· · -- the pipe entrance? · · ·

    A.· · Possibly, yeah. · · ·

    Q.· · Okay.· But you don't know one way or another? ·You're speculating? · · ·

    A.· · Yeah, just working from memory, yes.· I don't ·know.

    The claim that QM is the most accurate theory can specifically be attributed to QED based on the most precise measurement of the anomalous magnetic dipole moment (g-2).

    g/2 = 1.001 159 652 180 85 (76)

    I hope you understand what you write... May be you can show/tell us the connection between the experiment and QM - not QED!

    What about a modell for the third ionzation energy of Lithium? (Li2+ --> Li3+ Can You show us the calculated results?

    Convection via roof vents or wall-mounted fans certainly is significant. However, when Murray was there (throughout 1.5 days) the walls fans and roof vent fans (if it existed) were all off. The bay doors were shut. So the only convective heat loss method was natural convection through the roof vent. Which pretty obviously is not enough for 1MW or even 100kW as he found.

    I recommend to read Dock 215, the Murray grilling by Anesser... Murray never visited Doral during production time. The day Murray arrived, they just symbolically restarted the 1 MW for ½ an hour... Thus the debunker of IH has been fooled starting the first day ..

    Even Murray (in his deposition) had to confess that the flowmeter was full after he had a look at the factory plan, that Penon provided to IH. Thus Murray grasped the last straw by claiming “the flowmeter working out of range..” (which was refuted too...)

    Thus: Everything Murray said and gave JED is verified FUD! It will never be used in front of a jury.

    To my believe both sides are cheating. If IH would confirm the COP (11) they had on the tiger modules, they constructed and provided to Rossi, then it would be easy to show that Doral never produced more than 250kW. (Just by looking at the electricity bill!)

    But IH faces now a central deadlock. They cheated the investors, they wanted to frustrate/cheat the others (Mizuno!) in the field and now they invested already at least 5mio$ for a useless defense. They hired Murray for professional spoliation, they threatened many others. I would buy a spaceX flight to the Mars...

    One more thing: Doral used in average 50kW/day for non E-cat purposes. To move 10m3 you already need at least 0.6-1.0kW/h. AR's air-condition used some 100W/h so there is not much left for an office frigo and light and factory work...

    Out of Dock 215:

    Murray (A) confessed that the smart-meter used at the Doral building has broken during the test. Anesser didn't check what that means and answered. We don't see it on the bill. The number still is the same.

    Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 215-3 Entered on FLSD Docket 03/23/2017 423 Page 257 of

    Q.· · Do regulated Florida utilities ever have no information other than the data in the subpoena by Florida Power and So you have no reason to believe that

    ·device malfunctions? · · · A.· · Oh, absolutely.· Absolutely.· In fact, I ·believe in this facility they actually replaced a smart ·meter at some point earlier in the year. · · · Q.· · Why do you believe that? · · · A.· · Because the registration number of the meter ·in the subpoenaed data changed. · · · Q.· · When was that? · · · A.· · I don't recall.· It was earlier in the year. ·I would say sometime maybe in the May or June time ·frame. · · · Q.· · Okay.· Do you know if it was hooked up ·correctly when it was replaced? · · · A.· · I do, I do not.

    Thus we are in a situation, where we must assume that IH had access to the smart-meter all the time and could remote control the Doral electric power consumption. This explains why Darden in August 2015 suddenly wanted to fly to Doral - that time with Murray. Just after AR's COP doubled...

    IH knew from the beginning that AR's COP was between 5-6, which was no danger for any surplus payment. But after August 2015 the story completely changed. The new COP now was 10-11... This is the same (11) COP IH internally got, as Darden told a friend in his e-mail.

    Out of Dock 215:


    All the FUD (DN40, wrong flow-meter, wrong T-coupler, uncorrelated current uses versus COP etc..) presented in this forum has been nullified by Murray's deposition/interrogation. IH is now desperately locking for a last resort, as the spoliation effort, with bringing in Murray, completely failed.

    AR must be a genius in deception, if he can fool a whole bunch of Zoo animal hunters, with feeding them ready to shoot pet animals.

    To date, about 900MB of produced evidence are in the Dock! And still IH doesn't know, if they will pay for steam that never did flow...

    Finally we learn that IH – according Murray – never was able to reproduce any known LENR protocol, even the simple one provided by Mizuno ...(they mention five others..)

    Thus I can only recommend, to all researchers, to stay far- far away of IH and the other two dozen stealth companies ruled by Cherokee/IH. They have only one goal, disrupt LENR research by consuming your time.

    Thus only one last thing: The Li-H LENR effect recently has been decoded. There is absolutely no reason to stop any NiLiH LENR research! Just don't listen to frustrated hobbyists, telling you they never found any COP > 1. Even Parkhomow is now at COP 2.4!

    What is wrong with the E-cat test?

    Of course, it is impossible to dissipate 1 MW without heavy ventilation or partially releasing steam. The later can be excluded because “no” (few) water has been used from the Florida water supply. To condense steam you need a sufficiently high temperature difference, lets assume the 30 degrees we see between the two reservoirs(100--> 70). If AR used a heat exchanger steam--> water – inside the long black box – then, as already discussed, a high airflow or a large passive surface is needed to bring the water temperature from 100C down to 70C. The average yearly Temp. of Miami is 23C, thus the average delta T is 62C. Heating air by 20C brings away about 25kw/m3. To move one m3 air you need about 80watts (between 60 and 100 depending on construction). To move 10m3 air out of the cargo door (8m2) you need a wind speed of about 1.2m/s what is very low. Also for 750MW (whole August!) the wind speed (cargo door) is just a moderate 3.6m/s. The airspeed through the roof and the office window(s) must be 2-3 times higher. (Don't forget that at least 120kW – to 220kW, go away by heat conduction. Ask the only left neighbor about his air-condition during summer time!)

    Thus we can conclude: Everything depends on the effective design of the heat exchangers.

    The AR caveats must be found somewhere else. Why does the COP go up in summertime? With a smaller delta T for cooling? Why does the COP go down, when the steam flow rate is going down? Why did he not use a correct steam/pressure sensor? Or is there a simple answer like: At an internal pressure of 0.2..0.5 bar the sensor will work correctly?

    As Murray stated: There were 64 reactors in the Big Frankie's coupled with 51 of the smaller reactors. ( what clears the water-pump FUD) May be AR had to do a lot of load balancing and many Tiger modules faced a premature out and the low efficiency modules had to take over again.

    Why did nobody in IH try to improve the 1MW design prior to the test?

    Out of Dock 215:

    What kind of person is Murray? Murray worked for the deep state industrial sector, mainly on weapons testing. He mentioned testing heat impact (laser warming) of torpedoes. He earned 30k$/month of taxpayers money, what seemed to be the main reason he stoped his phd work about heat conduction.

    He certainly has the knowledge to run a team to test an E-cat like machine, but real physics seems to be far away since a long time.

    During the testimony Anesser (a brilliant advocate) asked him two different times, “what is the definition of COP” and Murray failed both times to explain it correctly in one sentence...

    Murray knew Dewey since more than ten years and thereof all the other investors (Darden, Vaughan..), what tells us the the whole IH-gang has deep connections into the military business. Murray was never hired by IH, what now is a high processual risk (I explain later). Murray was never introduced to Rossi and even more IH did hide Murray.

    Murrays famous visiting report that IH leaked to Jed Rothwell has been taken on the last symbolic operating day of the E-cat. The E-cat just did run for ½ of an hour – thus there was no heat in the Doral location.

    Prior to the visit, according to Murray's deposition, he has been instructed by Darden – already in June 2015 – that Rossi is a kind of fraudsters and that one of his (Murrays) task is to debunk the Doral installation.

    One of Murrays main tasks was to order 4 flow meters from Poland and to invent the low flow -meter story with a half full pipe. After Anesser showed him all the factory plans Penon sent to IH, clearly stating where the flowmeter was located and also the various thermo-couplers Murray desperately insisted, at least three times, that the flowmeter has been operated out of specs.

    Then he got the final hit by Anesser, who showed him a writeup from a certification company that clearly shows the meter error at the “low” 1.5m3/hour is only 0.3% off specs, still within the tolerance...

    Of course Murray also had to confess that he is the inventor of the DN40 story.

    The absolute highlight was his confession that he produced (using more than three weeks of paid labor..) a video, that shows that the Doral location only can get rid of about 100kW/hour. He used complicated (in fact excellent) software, to solve a problem, where a simple lookup into to some tables would have been sufficient. He assumed all doors closed, no ventilation..., If we consult a simple WWW calculator, then, after 5 minutes, we know that the whole building, even without ventilation, can dissipate about 200kW by heat conduction, not even needing an open door...

    After Murrays deposition it is clear that IH (from June 2015) wanted to sue Rossi or just expected Rossi would sue them.

    Because Murray was not an employee of IH, he cannot deny to talk before a jury. He can only refuse to answer a question, when he can present a NDA, which shows the exact specific requirement, what is highly unlikely! Everything Murray invented has dissolved into vapor, thus it is understandable that IH now is forced to desperate actions, like the new spoliation of evidence suit.

    Afraid of an Israeli business man who asks if Levi wants a job, and it is called a threat and witness tampering.

    oldguy : This is Trump-logic: Levi is a prof, what can a "business mafiosi" propose him?? A job in heaven?

    If any body else -- not a jew -- would have asked Levi, then he would have kicked they guy in the ass!

    Sorry, it was easy to misread your comment as racist. I put it back. Eric

    Sifferkol, I'm trying to give reasons to Peter, who asked for them. But just a note: you are very much on thin ice.

    I guess it's time that the moderator's uncover their relationship's.

    If a single person can run (ban members) this forum, then LENR-FORUM is potentially biased. I would wellcome that at least two mods must agree for a ban and both have comment it!

    If Dewey can post again, then I see no need for the above...

    I recommend to read 226.2 details about Levi etc. bribery.

    & 226.5 blood sweat and tears for Annesser (shined up in person)...

    They last straw seems to be, that AR didn't pay all taxes. But the court already more or elss denied relevance for the jurisdiction.

    Alan - your moderatroll ways are so tiring.

    why not ban this ?? But for somebody who got the whiplash he is really quiet...