The Playground

    RB - it is a shame you too are propagating this PR.


    Umm...


    It is true that for male under-40 subgroup pericarditis risks are higher for vaccine 2nd dose than COVID....


    But - COVID pericarditis is on average a lot more severe than vaccine pericarditis (shall we look at the data?). Vaccine-induced pericarditis is transient and 99% mild.

    And - what you did not say - strange omission - the RISK of COVID is many things, and OVERALL much higher than the risk of the vaccine for this selected subgroup.


    You know this, right?


    Worth pointing it out unless anyone here is misled by what you posted above.

    No " PR " here.. or BS

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    Quote from RobertBryant

    Seems to be a fair range of experts here..but not in "PR" or BS

    Umm....


    RB - did you actually read my post?


    I expect deflection from people like Steve Kirsch speaking to an echo chamber of followers, but not you.


    You are emphasising that COVID vaccines can cause myocarditis as a side effect, which is true. You will note it was I (not you) who referenced that multiple-authored study and noted that relative risk evidence from self-controlled case studies is gold standard - better controlled than any other study. It was I (not you) who noted the apparently geometric increase in risk with successive vaccinations - which therefore might make yearly mRNA vaccine boosters an issue for younger people.


    I also pointed out that by talking about vaccine risk more generally, yet only comparing myocarditis risks, you were behaving as any common garden antivaxxer and (deliberately?) misleading.


    It is highly misleading to compare vaccine and COVID risks on the basis of myocarditis (by far the most prevalent vaccine side effect) alone. It might be reasonable if myocarditis was the main way COVID damaged people.


    It is also interesting to note that while COVID-induced myocarditis has killed a 15 year old healthy girl who lives within 100 miles of me:

    Support offered to classmates and teachers of Jorja Halliday who died with Covid-19
    SUPPORT is being offered to classmates of a young kickboxer who died with Covid-19.
    www.portsmouth.co.uk


    Vaccine-induced myocarditis is extremely mild - a fact not contradicted by the authors of that excellent self-controlled case study paper.


    So even on the narrow question of myocarditis risks you can't just compare case numbers.


    COVID vaccine-related myocarditis rare, usually mild, studies say
    The trio of studies found that young men appear to have higher risk.
    www.cidrap.umn.edu


    (whole population study, 5,000,000 people, 142 mRNA vaccine-linked myocarditis. 1 death)


    It is easy to see why the vaccine-induced myocarditis is mild (from above link):


    The researchers note that the standardized incidence ratio declined with age among the boys and men: It was 13.60 in those 16 to 19, 8.53 in those 20 to 24, 6.96 in those 25 to 29, and 2.90 in those 30 and older.


    It is skewed with age towards those who are much younger, who would be expected to recover better from a transient heart inflammation.


    Don't think it is just one study commenting on the relative mildness of vaccine-induced myocarditis:


    The JAMA Internal Medicine research letter was the only investigation whose cohort included both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Analyzing data on 2,392,924 at least partially vaccinated adults in the Kaiser Permanente health system, the researchers found 15 cases of confirmed myocarditis, with 2 after the first and 13 after the second dose.

    Incidence was 0.8 cases per 1 million first doses and 5.8 per 1 million second doses over a 10-day observation window—or a 0.0006% incidence, even rarer than in the NEJM studies.

    Compared with 1,577,741 unvaccinated Kaiser Permanente patients, who had 75 incidences of myocarditis during the study period, the incidence rate ratio was 0.38 after the first dose and 2.7 after the second dose (95% CIs, 0.05 to 1.40 to 1.4 to 4.8, respectively).

    All myocarditis cases linked with vaccination were in men 40 years or younger (median age, 25) with no cardiac disease history. Fourteen (93%) had chest pain 1 to 5 days post-vaccination, and all were discharged from the hospital within a week without needing intensive care. None required readmission.

    The study took place from Dec 14, 2020, to Jul 20, 2021, in southern California. Half of the vaccinated cohort received Moderna, and half received Pfizer. The median age of vaccinees was 49 years, but 35.7% were younger than 40. The vast majority (93.5%) received two doses. About 54% of participants were women, and 31.2% were White.



    Summary:

    • Vaccine-induced myocarditis is a lot higher after Moderna vaccine
    • Myocarditis risks increase for 2nd dose and again for 3rd dose (preliminary info)
    • Vaccine-induced myocarditis is predominately mild
    • Risks (of myocarditis) increase sharply as age gets younger, just as COVID risks increase sharply as age gets older. For boosters especially the risks need to be considered for young people.
    • Nevertheless numbers are very low, and COVID remains a serious disease for a small number of young people, so expect the crossover risk to be at a very young age. In the UK 2 doses of Pfizer (NOT Moderna) vaccine (in a reduced dosage) are approved for 5-11 year olds. No-one is offering boosters to young children.



    Quote from Alan Fletcher

    Just wondering: my 80yo brother in ZA reported "Omicron is rampant but their social distancing is good. We have been double jabbed and topped up with Ivermectin. "

    No ivermection in UK, but omicron is looking a lot milder.


    However it is not yet clear how much of that is due to prior infection (and vaccination). With every wave of COVID many countries, including SA and the UK, have more immunity from previous waves. It all helps.


    So, personally, take those lower risks with a pinch of salt if you reckon you have never yet caught COVID, and 3 pinches of salt if you are not uptodate on vaccinations...


    THH

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    I also pointed out that by talking about vaccine risk more generally, yet only comparing myocarditis risks, you were behaving as any common garden antivaxxer and (deliberately?) misleading.

    I know only one person that is constantly misleading people. It's a clown by definition. With proper treatment CoV-19 is just a mild cold. Vaccines causes 10'000'000 more damage than any known treatment. The gene therapies have 1000...10'000 higher risk than classic vaccines.


    Only an idiot can claim that Pfizer/Moderna/Oxford-ASTRA gene therapy is safe!

    Does Omicron Represent the Beginning of the End of COVID-19? South African-led Research Raises a Glimmer of Hope


    Does Omicron Represent the Beginning of the End of COVID-19? South African-led Research Raises a Glimmer of Hope
    A large group of South Africa-based scientists led by the Africa Health Research Institute recently uploaded study results that indicate the new super
    trialsitenews.com


    A large group of South Africa-based scientists led by the Africa Health Research Institute recently uploaded study results that indicate the new super mutant of SARS-CoV-2, Omicron, strengthens the neutralizing immunity in response to the previously dominant Delta variant of COVID-19. Not yet peer-reviewed, this study shouldn’t be used as scientific or medical evidence as of yet but nonetheless introduces important new data for consideration. Involving 33 enrolled vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with Omicron, the investigators found that these individuals developed stronger immunity to the powerful Delta variant of concern.


    More specifically, the study authors discuss their findings: the highly transmissible yet seemingly milder Omicron demonstrated 14 days after enrollment a 14-fold boost in neutralization against Omicron with a 4.4 fold boost of neutralization to the Delta variant. This could represent good news as the study team wrote these findings along with emerging Omicron study data finding that this strain seems “less pathogenic than Delta which may overall decrease severe disease burden. Could Omicron represent the beginning of the end of COVID-19?


    Commenting on the results, the scientists report, “The increase in Delta variant neutralization in individuals infected with Omicron may result in decreased ability of Delta to re-infect those individuals.”


    Alex Sigal served as the study team’s corresponding author. A faculty member at the Africa Health Research Institute, he also is employed as an associated professor at the University of KwaZulu and has centered his recent research on the study of SARS-CoV-2 evolution as well as HIV. Dr. Sigal’s laboratory was the first to isolate the beta variant.



    What is the Africa Health Research Institute?

    Called the AHRI, this independent, transdisciplinary scientific research institute is based across two campuses in the province of KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa. Focusing on population, social and medical sciences, the AHRI works to better understand and intervene in the health and well-being of South African communities.


    This research center collaborates with government, academia, and other policy stakeholders with at least 60 collaborations worldwide. AHRI employs approximately 500 scientists, students, and staff members. TrialSite provides a link to the preprint server now also uploaded to MedXriv. The findings must now be reviewed rigorously along with steady, independent, and unbiased observation of other findings

    Defiant Gothamites show COVID panic’s days may finally be numbered

    By Steve Cuozzo


    Defiant Gothamites show COVID panic’s days may finally be numbered
    Just when you thought the pandemic could hold no more surprises, the Omicron grinch has brought America something new for the holidays: the festive panic.In…
    nypost.com


    Just when you thought the pandemic could hold no more surprises, the Omicron grinch has brought America something new for the holidays: the festive panic.


    In New York City especially, the number of people, and energy level, in stores and restaurants and on the streets is remarkable given our supposed death rattle. It isn’t that people aren’t afraid. Of course they are. But they’re not as afraid as they were a year ago.


    Count me, triple-vaccinated, among the brave: I’ve been out and around town, repeatedly testing negative — but tested again as I write this after learning a relative at a Christmas gathering had tested positive.


    Sure, nervous corporate suits scrapped live audiences for “Saturday Night Live.” Broadway theaters and other performance venues closed for nights at a time due to a single company member having asymptomatic COVID.


    But Apple’s reversal is a better barometer of the mood on the street. After announcing the total closure of all its city stores earlier this week, the company partly backtracked Tuesday and said it was reopening them to a reduced number of customers.


    Apple learned the hard way from a torrent of Twitter howling (e.g., “You are destroying this city!!!!!!”). So should others take the cue. For all the warped coronavirus “science” on which no two scientists agree, most people are voting with their appetites, their wallets and their wanderlust.

    They’re defiant in the face of nerve-grating pronouncements and warnings from the Fauci/New York Times/CNN virus-forever complex. They spew horrible news 24/7: Breakthrough infections among the vaccinated! Omicron’s unprecedented contagiousness!


    Amidst so much gloom untempered by context or nuance — such as the fact that most Omicron cases among fully vaxxed people are about as eventful as common colds — one would expect a fear-frozen metropolis would be “sheltering in place” as in the darkest days of spring 2020.


    It’s nothing like that, of course — as a stroll on any block except for in a few Hamptons-happy neighborhoods attests.


    Christmas weekend air travel was widely reported, but most of the media got the story wrong. The real news wasn’t widely regurgitated (and entirely predictable) accounts of flight cancellations, pilots too sick to fly and general airport chaos (as if those things didn’t happen to a lesser degree every holiday season).


    What mattered, rather, was how many people took to the air in spite of it all. On Friday, Christmas Eve, more than 1.7 million people went through TSA checkpoints. They were 800,000 fewer than the 2019, pre-COVID total — how could it be otherwise given the level of hysteria? — but more than twice the 846,520 fliers on Christmas Eve 2020.


    Business is off at many Big Apple restaurants — again, how could it not be? — but the news is how busy they remain. Even the “Ban indoor dining” mob has shut up despite soaring virus positivity.


    Most restaurants are open for New Year’s Eve complete with festive trimmings. Many offer special holiday meals, such as $395 for five courses at Marea on Central Park South — a place that recently closed for three days after a staff COVID cluster.

    Peak, a celebration dining-with-a-view venue 1,000 feet high at Hudson Yards, told me it has a waiting list of 1,000. It’s been sold out for months. There are cancellations but “we replace them in 20 minutes” on the RESY site, the manager said.


    One reason for people’s stiffening disregard for government “guidance” is that most have learned to recognize baloney after being fed it for nearly two years.


    On Tuesday, for example, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention radically revised downward its estimate of Omicron prevalence — from 78 percent of US cases the week ending Dec. 18 to a mere 23 percent.


    Oops, off by 55 percentage points? Never mind.


    The CDC’s current estimate is 59 percent. Pick a number, any number!


    There are even signs that leftist and merely liberal politicians are waking up. Gov. Kathy Hochul, incoming Mayor Eric Adams and outgoing empty-suit Bill de Blasio presented a united front Tuesday to declare that public schools will reopen next week and stay open.


    Maybe it was a warning shot across the bow of the teachers union, which would happily give its members another six months off.


    But just maybe it was a sign that panic days are finally numbered.

    Quote from Fm1

    One reason for people’s stiffening disregard for government “guidance” is that most have learned to recognize baloney after being fed it for nearly two years.


    On Tuesday, for example, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention radically revised downward its estimate of Omicron prevalence — from 78 percent of US cases the week ending Dec. 18 to a mere 23 percent.


    Oops, off by 55 percentage points? Never mind.


    The CDC’s current estimate is 59 percent. Pick a number, any number!


    Quote from Fm1

    There are even signs that leftist and merely liberal politicians are waking up.


    Everyone knows that omicron is going to be close to 100% everywhere soon. In the Uk we have integrated healthcare and good random sample data - we can say with some certainty what is the omicron rate - FOR 10 days ago. Uptodate information is always going to be a guess.


    So, if you like politics, enjoy the spin. Otherwise don't take flakiness of estimates that in a fast-moving situation can't be accurate as a problem. And don't think "omicron is so transmissable it will all be omicron soon" is an exaggeration from politicians of some sort you do not like.


    And thank the vaccines that everywhere can now stay open (we hope)!


    THH

    You still don't get it. Spread of the virus and the timeing of it is a pattern and has been for 2years. Around each seasonal change we see a sharp rise in cases and then a sharp drop after Covid reaches about 20% saturation of the population. Omicrom looks to be a different beast as it went as high as 30.1 % saturation before the decline began in south africa. Both natural immunity and vaccinated have seen large breakthroughs. The vaccines have no effect on the spread of the virus. Hospitalized and deaths the vaccines show a small positive effect. More people have died since the introduction of the latest and greatest than before. If hospitals become overrun with cases it will be mostly vaccinated. Early treatment ends the need for hospitals!!!

    Quote from Fm1

    The vaccines have no effect on the spread of the virus. Hospitalized and deaths the vaccines show a small positive effect.

    You are just wrong here.


    Re spread of virus - vaccines have changed the rate at which it spreads, although given that is a positive exponential it just alters how sharp are the peaks for all those places where with vaccine rate is > 1 - withy omicron that is almost everywhere. Given that everywhere without vaccine and with COVID has suffered catastrophic large spikes, after which there is a lot of COVID survivor immunity, long run vaccines are not going to affect spread much.


    However, vaccines have reduced whole population death and serious disease rates by a large factor - something between 10 and 3 (lower for very old people).


    That protective effect becomes less important as more people are COVID-survivors. Obviously catching COVID 2nd time round, if you have survived first time, is less risky.


    small positive effect my arse.


    And propagating that deception is dangerous individually for those at risk who are persuaded not to get vaccinated.


    If you want to talk numbers: we are calculating the difference in mortality from COVID infection between two groups:


    • unvaccinated, COVID-naive individuals
    • vaccinated, COVID-naive individuals


    Everything after that (those who have previously had COVID) the risks are much lower, and therefore the relative protection from vaccination also much lower.


    If you wish to argue on this: post numbers.


    THH

    340,000 deaths from Covid in 2020 in the United States an estimated 500,000 since the latest and greatest . Now how many of those were breakthrough infections that infected others that died?

    NY Congresswoman—Focus on Early Therapies & Treatments, Free up mAbs & Drop Vaccine Mandates Now


    NY Congresswoman—Focus on Early Therapies & Treatments, Free up mAbs & Drop Vaccine Mandates Now
    While the U.S. federal government’s dominant narrative of mass vaccination to eradicate COVID-19 continues to represent the dominant narrative, growing
    trialsitenews.com


    While the U.S. federal government’s dominant narrative of mass vaccination to eradicate COVID-19 continues to represent the dominant narrative, growing numbers of people now realize the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen is here to stay. This means local, state, and federal governments must work together, embrace the emerging data that breakthrough infections become all too frequent and continue to adjust and adapt, learning to live with the pathogen in an endemic stage. Recently, Fox News interviewed Rep. Nicole Malliotakis, R-NY who shared her primary concerns which include 1) focus on treatments and therapies 2) ensure states have easier access to monoclonal antibodies and 3) halt the vaccine mandates as they only compound an already crisis situation with shortages of mission critical first responders such as police, firefighters and healthcare staff.


    Recently played on Fox News’ YouTube channel, the New York Congresswoman raised concerns including a lack of focus on early care, shortages in monoclonal antibodies at the state and local level, and a horrendous vaccine mandate policy which only led to more severe shortages of first responders. With a rising Omicron-driven surge in New York, she is particularly concerned about treatment access, including monoclonal antibodies (mAbs) which are now in short supply.


    Malliotakis emphasized that New York adults are 89% vaccinated—TrialSite notes this is well over the threshold levels that Dr. Anthony Fauci and other experts earlier in the pandemic declared would lead to herd immunity. But that isn’t happening, as early assumptions that the COVID-19 vaccines would halt or severely inhibit viral transmission fall far short of reality. In fact, the often-touted mRNA-based vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna wane in effectiveness within months of the second jab and problematically, in the case of Pfizer-BioNTech’s BNT162b2, declines in effectiveness even faster after the third booster jab according to a recent study result.


    While Rep. Malliotakis believes strongly in encouraging vaccination, she downplayed the vaccine-first imperative at this point. Again, just about 90% of the adult population already has received double jabs. Rather, the Congresswoman emphasized the high importance for treatments and therapies along with stopping the Biden vaccine mandates.



    She shared with John Roberts that the move only worsens overall conditions, including contributing to a rapidly worsening labor shortage. While first responders such as police, fire, and emergency service personnel, not to mention healthcare staff, are processed out of job, those who are fully vaccinated continue to become infected at growing rates, known as breakthrough infections. These infected, yet vaccinated, workers must still quarantine during their infectious period, while their unvaccinated colleagues in many cases were already processed out of a job, thanks to Mayor Bill de Blasio, for example. Thus, exaggerating an already bad situation—more critical shortages that lead to worsening healthcare responses.


    Malliotakis also suggested that fluctuating Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) pandemic response communications have confused more than helped the American public throughout the pandemic. Fox’s John Roberts brought up a recent Wall Street Journal editorial questioning America’s flirtation with authoritarianism during the pandemic. A free and open society has worked well for America—why stop now? Malliotakis ended her interview suggesting that in addition to focusing on treatments and therapies, the states need to access monoclonal antibodies, and she emphasized the importance of bringing the medical supply chain back home


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    Quote from Fm1

    340,000 deaths from Covid in 2020 in the United States an estimated 500,000 since the latest and greatest . Now how many of those were breakthrough infections that infected others that died?

    You are double-counting? I don't doubt many personal tragedies - COVID is full of that.


    We are all agreed, I think, that omicron (and to some extent delta) goes through populations and infects everyone in the end.


    So the issue is not spread, but whether the person the disease spreads to is more or less protected when that happens as it inevitably will.


    There is one other thing about slowing down waves of infection (which vaccines do): there is time for better therapies to come on line, both at home and in hospitals.


    THH

    Double counting? Over 800,000 Americans have died from Covid 19. In 2020 340,000 died from Covid according to the CDC. In 2021 an estimated 500,000 have died of Covid according to the CDC. In 2021 we had the vaccine, more infections more hospitalized and more deaths and still no outpatient treatment. You wanted numbers, I gave you the only numbers that count. More people have died since the introduction of the lastest and greatest than before. Those numbers are from the united states CDC. Your one size fits all has failed miserably! When are you getting #4 , tomorrow? Maybe get an appointment in a week for # 5.

    Quote from Fm1

    One reason for people’s stiffening disregard for government “guidance” is that most have learned to recognize baloney after being fed it for nearly two years.

    We (CH) have raising record numbers (17'634!) with omicron well above 60% now. Thanks to no restrictions in shops traveling etc. we all will get a full dose of Omicron soon. Our positive rate is now 22% what indicates we now are well above 100'000 daily infections .


    And guess what! Hospitalization (ICU) did go down a bit already. Here in Zürich we always were 1/3 below the September summer holiday peak....


    So its soon end of the FM/R/B terror game. But expect more war soon!

    Quote from Fm1

    If hospitals become overrun with cases it will be mostly vaccinated.

    That is ridiculous. You must be innumerate. Nearly every hospital patient is unvaccinated, with all of the variants. Vaccinated people usually suffer only a mild case that does not need hospitalization.


    That is one of the most ridiculous statements published here, which is saying a lot. Weren't you also the one who claimed that the 400,000 dead people in 2021 proves the vaccines are not working? Even though 95% of the dead were not vaccinated? That illogic -- the grotesque stupidity of such statements -- is breathtaking. How can a vaccine help someone who refuses to take it?!?

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