Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • Wow, you really are messed up and delusional Sigmo ... I'm not talking about Rossi, I'm talking about YOU. You were clearly stating that your "good" intentions made you sleep well regardless of the outcome... And I was simply saying that "the rood to hell is paved with good intentions". Thats it. And it seems to have hit a sweet spot, since you totally went ballistic about it... ;)

  • It has already been accepted upthread that Rossi claimed to offer IH a refund. So I'm not going to play fetch.

    Other things on Rossi's JONP blog have been entered as evidence.

    And - for the 986th time - even if other things on the blog have been entered into evidence1, that doesn't mean that everything from the blog is admissible.

    And, as woodworker and I have both told you, stuff that happens in settlement talks generally isn't admissible. Federal Rule of Evidence 408:

    (a) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of the following is not admissible — on behalf of any party — either to prove or disprove the validity or amount of a disputed claim or to impeach by a prior inconsistent statement or a contradiction:

    (1) furnishing, promising, or offering — or accepting, promising to accept, or offering to accept — a valuable consideration in compromising or attempting to compromise the claim; and

    (2) conduct or a statement made during compromise negotiations about the claim — except when offered in a criminal case and when the negotiations related to a claim by a public office in the exercise of its regulatory, investigative, or enforcement authority.

    So your mythical offer to settle probably doesn't come in either as evidence that Rossi thought Rossi owed the money or as evidence that Rossi lied. Both uses are explicitly banned. (The rationale being that settlement negotiations should be encouraged as much as possible.)

    1: Technically, nothing has been entered into evidence yet. There are things that have appeared in the various things we've seen from discovery, and lists of stuff that the parties intend to admit, but they still have to jump through all the right hoops in the right order to get the stuff admitted.

  • Rossi is shrewd. My guess is he not only has the original 10.5 mil, but has probably grown it some. Besides, he may have other backers willing to step up.

  • From the report, " MFMP obtained a (false) reading of 1524°C versus a 874°C thermocouple reading".

    It is mind boggling that scientists could be off by more than 500degreesC in a measurement of heat. And the odd thing is that this "reality distortion field" seems to apply to when Rossi is involved. No one thought to bring a simple thermometer?

    Kevmo - glad to see you are beginning to see the issue here.

    Rossi's ability to spoof tests is indeed mind-boggling, and has taken in many people better (though maybe also more naive) than you.

    Surely even you are not claiming MFMP, TC, Bob Higgins, GSVIT are all wrong on this subtle but large error?

    Let me point out - maybe you did not know - how Rossi does it.

    Most people doing experiments of this type reckon a control experiment is needed. It lets them debug their equipment and check what they are measuring is real.

    Rossi is on record as saying that controls are not necessary because they provide no information. And he is as good as his word. his experiments have almost never had a control. Where there has been a control it has been under different conditions or protocols from the real experiment - hence no control at all. And in the Lugano test Rossi convinced the testers (or the testers convinced themselves) it was two difficult to use a simple thermomenter AKA thermocouple except at very low temperatures where it did no good.

    Now you can perhaps see why almost everyone here reckons Rossi technically incompetent as well as a liar? The above are all incontrovertible facts, in the public record. I'd like you to acknowledge them.

  • It does not matter if Rossi was lying about the offer. Once you get it on the docket and the judge starts asking Rossi questions about it, the jig is up. If he lied about the offer then there is no reason for the jury to believe him on anything. If IH lied about the offer the same thing applies.

    Juries don't understand calorimetry; hell, it looks like even 'experts' don't understand calorimetry. But they know when someone withdraws an offer disingenuinely that means they'll be sitting through 5 weeks of depositions. It's the whole case in a nutshell.


    We have some guys here who actually understand the legal stuff - a good idea for you to pay attention to them.

    There are so many things wrong with this statement I'll just point out the non-legal one.

    Having got this far, and spent some $3M or more on legal fees, Rossi (or his lawyers if on contingency) is going to want to recoup them - if he has a case. Similarly IH. So withdrawing such an offer (assuming it was ever made, which seems highly unlikely) can be perfectly well argued. I can't for the life of me work out why this one insignificant issue so concerns you.

    On the other side, if you think one of the gadzillion blog lies of Rossi paraded in front of Jurors is going to have more effect than the more relevant letter boasting about how he lied to his previous partner to break a contract, or vanishing heat exchanger, well then you are just far away from everyone else. Quite apart from the fact that a dissection of Rossi's blog (if such a comment is admissable) is going to be argumentative and distract the Jury from the main point.

  • Standard Type K thermocouples good up to 1200 degrees c. Used to run multiple thermocouples at a time thru 40-foot long muffle belt furnaces, glued (sometimes drilled into and glued) onto ceramic (aluminum oxide usually) substrates with ceramic cement, the thermocouple leads with alumina bead insulators rolled up on bicycle rims and fed thru the furnace (this was 25+ years ago), for profiling metallurgy firing processes--slapping several on the static Rossi Patented Hotdog Cooker tubes is a no-brainer (but that tried and true, direct measurement leaves way too little room for the Wizard of Miami/Italy to yank the levers and wave hands).

  • I'm trying to figure out the psychological strategy of your FUD posts and it comes to me that it is all about to state in every possible way and as often as possible that Rossi is a liar. Include some FUD-traps (legal or technical) and that is all there is to it.

    I suppose this is done to establish the idea that Rossi should have also lied under oath, which is critical for your work, isn't it?

    In reality we know that the professional liars (sales people lawyer types) in this story are Dewey, Darden et al. I've read some of the court docs and I do not believe any of them dare lie under oath - as Dewey so clearly points out by refusing to say anything with the hand on the bible here ... In that case the thing to watch for is what is the squirming and what is dodged and not clearly answered... And in that case Darden/Vaughn testimonies takes the price without any competition.


    Are you saying Rossi does not lie? (I'd like an answer)

    It is on the record. To be fair, the blog comments are mostly deceitful misdirections, rather than outright lies, but from a distance there is not much difference. for example, the sales of e-cats, robotic factories, etc that feature so prominently on his blog correspond to something, but usually just a plan or idea. rather like JMP which Rossi claims he planned to have something to do with a real customer, but the plan fell through. Somehow, in all these cases, Rossi's audience gets the idea that he is talking about a real thing, not a fantasy.

    if we talk about strategy I'd say yours is to attempt to portray a highly deceptive and technically incompetent person in a good light, because you believe he uniquely has undisclosed technology that will save the world. You would do better to engage honestly with the reasons why few other people agree with you, instead of throwing round accusations of ulterior motive.

    Further, you so dislike (I guess on ideological grounds) VCs, lawyers, and professional people that you brand them as professional liars. The only lawyer in this case who on evidence published may have lied (or else been seriously deceived by Rossi - but I'm not sure that washes) is Rossi's own lawyer and third party counter-claim co-defendent Henry Johnson.

  • Rossi is shrewd. My guess is he not only has the original 10.5 mil, but has probably grown it some. Besides, he may have other backers willing to step up.

    I doubt Rossi wants this offer to become 'real' because it means he wouldn't get his $89M. He seems to have very little chance of winning that but juries do very strange things, like saying "if the glove don't fit you must acquit" while completely ignoring overwhelming scientific evidence of DNA .

    Rossi seems to be able to pull the wool over the eyes of seasoned scientists and even Skeptics Society members if you believe the hyperskeptics side of the story. So he might easily charm a jury that will roll their eyes when the technical stuff goes back & forth.

  • The way you intersperse your response is making it very difficult for me to respond directly.


    I was told that blog entries were inadmissible. Now we know they have been admitted as evidence.

    Whoever told you that blog entries are always inadmissible was: (1) not me; and either (2) wrong or (3) actually making a much less general statement which you misunderstood. Both 2 and 3 are possible; given what I've seen of your antics so far, I'd say 3 is more likely.

    And for the 987th time, you will not answer a hypothetical but I'll ask anyways because I like to see how lawyers twist. Does the fact that some of the blog entries have been admitted mean that the supposed offer blog entry is more likely or less likely to be admitted as evidence?

    1: That's not a hypothetical.
    2: I don't know how much more clearly I can say this: the fact that a particular blog entry has been admitted makes it neither more likely or less likely that the "supposed offer" entry would be admitted, because each and every individual entry offered as evidence must be admitted on its own merits. The admission of other entries from the blog makes no difference. At all. Of any kind. None.

    As far as your tl:dr lawyer stuff, that's known on planet Earth as the law. It's possible that nobody listens to it on Planet Moonbat, but a copy of it will be in a well-thumbed book on the judge's bench in Florida. And the judge pays attention to it. If she doesn't, she gets overturned on appeal.


    I have been saying this is a vehicle to get the 5 week trial whittled down to 20 minutes.

    You are wrong. As in, so far from 'right' that you cannot see right anymore because the curvature of the universe is blocking your view.

    The statement is almost certainly inadmissible, and even if it's admitted it doesn't demonstrate what you think it demonstrates. There are no circumstances in which the alleged indefinite offer to settle from months in the past would settle a suit over whether Rossi completed his performance and is now owed millions of dollars.

  • It takes a special person to stay loyal to Rossi. He has told so many lies in his depositions that it will be impossible for him to avoid perjuring himself on the stand in Miami. His very deliberate plan to use sock puppets and the Planet Rossi special person spin machine in creating confusion and assembling their "story" from nits and staged exchanges is not working - there are too many intelligent lovers of fact and truth on his tail. The remaining real folks who are left need to realize that history has shown that things don't work out very well for those used by Rossi in his past schemes. He gets what he needs out of them and dumps them like cold leftovers. Fortunately, the moment of truth is upon him and he is going to have to answer for his actions and lies. No amount of internet spin is going to change that - no matter how hard they try.

  • So what are you afraid of then?

    As for me, I'm afraid he may get away with it. I'm afraid he will be slippery and confusing enough on the stand that the jurors will just think he is having problems with English language comprehension. Personally, I have no fear whatsoever that he has anything that works. There is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise, and large amounts of evidence of a deliberate scam.

  • TTM - Are you afraid to use your real name? While we're on the subject, who said anything about being afraid besides you and what point are you trying to make?Is this just more attempted Planet Rossi digital bully-floamage? To answer your question - I'm not afraid of anything on Planet Rossi or planet earth.

  • Calm down Dewey. From all your ranting and slashing around here I got the impression you are afraid that something might not go the way you want it with the trial on course.

    If that impression was wrong then it is ok with me.

    BTW: didn't i already tell you my real name?

  • Sifferkoll - I'm almost starting to feel sorry for you again. The numbers of lies in Rossi's depositions are staggering. I don't think we'll be able to get to all of them.

    And what is with your ongoing "hand on the Bible" thingy? These are signs of some bad juju siffer.

  • Ah, so being physically close to Rossi or the ecat will change your outlook and clarify the reality of the technology. This could well be the true Rossi Effect, certainly IH seemed to succumb for a period. I wonder if its strength adheres to the inverse square law?

  • We're learning a lot about Siffer today. I'm going to hold off on my new nickname for him while he continues to lay down some track.

    From the Planet Rossi collective:

    1. Repeat it enough and it will become true. (nuff said about that)

    2. The market is the true measure of a working device. (mercerto veritas or some mumbo jumbo like that - had a hard time typing that one with straight face / fingers).

    3. You have to be close enough to the master to see the truth. (which is not true as I got pretty close to the master and his reactor with an IR temp gun - saw the truth and got thrown out).

    What else can we add to Malcolm's inverse square law initiative?

  • Dear Dewey,

    Maybe you could sit and enjoy the match, you and the pacemonitor share enough facts to give any rational reader a hint on the result, so no need to worry about the result.

    I'm more worried by your desire to participate to the match, but unless you reach the bar, we are in the tribune, and the police of the tribune watch us.

    Wan't some popcorn?

    Or you can watch "Orange is the new Black" on Netflix thinking about ... someone you will love there.

  • As an interested observer, I am completely mystified by those who continue to argue with the handful of remaining Rossi supporters here. Clearly contradictions, outright lies, ridiculous rationalizations, and impossibilities give these people no pause whatsoever. Trying to reason with them is utterly futile. Planet Rossi may have its fascinations but keep in mind that the rest of us don't have to live on it.

  • I don't know about you, but to me it is pretty obvious that if you are the actually measuring stuff in first person (like the Uppsala team, Mats Lewan, etc) then you are infinitely better suited to assess reality than sitting in some kitchen on the other side of the planet guessing and making stuff up that suits your agenda ad hoc (like most people here).

    If you bother to read and then do the necessary work to understand the literature on the Lugano report, then you are in a much better position to understand the Lugano team, Mats et al. Whether the reading is done in an armchair or on the moon makes no difference.

    I can't see that being charmed by them is either here or there when it comes to evaluating scientific competence.

  • Well, you certainly are afraid of saying anything with your hand on the bible, isn't it so Dewey. Those fantasy bible entities of yours must be really scary. ... Yeah, why don't you tell me why it is so important that you dodge it every time? Could it be because you tell nothing but lies? [ ... etc. ... ]

    sifferkoll 's account suspended for two weeks. It was just a matter of time. Next time will probably be permanent.