(not MFMP but) BG preparing some big announcement?

  • Hi Barty, who said governments were logical? Funnily enough I have just been reading a translated Russian article bemoaning the fact that as far back as 1957 a researcher there called Filimenko was working on Pd/D LENR. By the mid 60's his programme was shut down and LENR work was officially discouraged and underfunded for decades afterwards. Now they look and say 'what a great job the Americans are doing, why cant we have a research programme like that?'

  • Barty "There is absolutely no logical sense for a government to suppress a technology"


    Most politicians and civil servants in government have poor knowledge of which technology is better


    However technological companies and inventors have a very logical reason to oppose and suppress 'better' competitors

    Eventually these suppression efforts fail .. but 'eventually" can take decades.


    Luckily Edison could not suppress Tesla's AC generator...

    but if he had enough political/financial influence Edison would have suppressed it for decades

    so that he could rake in the profits from his DC technology

  • Anyone who cares about making LENR research into a reputable and fundable research area would be advised not to go for kooky conspiracy theories. I, personally, am about as anti-conspiracy-theory as you can be. I reckon cock-ups (of which there are many) are much more likely than conspiracies, and can have the same signature. But, in this case, I can't see any evidence for a conspiracy anyway and its is sad that anyone here is taking it seriously.

  • In my experience, talk of conspiracy theories is generally better an indicator of the state of mind of the person suggesting them than a basis for understanding the situation the person is attempting to explain. It would be nigh impossible for the CIA to control knowledge about LENR, even if it had its hands on a working device.

  • The 9/11 conspiracy is illogical. Why would the government send planes to impact the pentagon and the Capital building? Why would the vice president still be located in the white house? A good conspiracy theory should make some sense.

  • Barty "There is absolutely no logical sense for a government to suppress a technology"


    Most politicians and civil servants in government have poor knowledge of which technology is better

    Yes, sure. They don't have the knowledge, but have consultans.

    If LENR is real, they know it's possible existence since nearly 3 decades(!!). That's enough time to have at least a plan in the drawer for supporting the economy when marketable products are ready (where we are far away from).


    See the emdrive. It became mainstream with high NASA support. Of course there are doubts because there is yet no scientific model describing the measured data, but there is no "evil force" tryimg to shut down the debate about it. Why doing it with LENR?


    In my opinion the story BG is propagating is complete bullshit.

    Sorry to say that.

    First I was shocked about his sudden change of mind, now I'm only able to shake my head.

  • Anyone who cares about making LENR research into a reputable and fundable research area would be advised not to go for kooky conspiracy theories.

    A "conspiracy" is defined at "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful." The opposition to cold fusion has always been public. It is published in the leading journals, and headed up by plasma fusion researchers, the DoE, Scientific American and other mainstream organizations. They do not hide their activity. On the contrary, they brag about how they destroyed the research and fired the researchers.


    Conspiracy is sometimes defined as an "organized" action. The opposition to cold fusion is not organized as far as I know.


    So it is not a conspiracy. It is academic politics, which are rampant in all fields of academia.


    You have to understand that compared to other professions such as programming or engineering, ethical standards in academia are in the gutter. I have worked with many different kinds of people in my life, in the U.S. and in Japan. I have only encountered one group more corrupt than academic scientists: the mafia members who ran Las Vegas hotels where I used to install computer equipment. In academic politics, anything goes. Tactics such as character assassination, threats of deportation, pulling strings to cut funding or cancel meetings, using the government to harass opponents and demand personal correspondence and tax returns, stealing ideas during peer-review, publishing fake data, and sabotaging experiments are widespread in academia. They are as common as fleas on an alley cat. See, for example:


    http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=862


    I assume Robert Park and others were so quick to accuse Fleischmann and Pons of being frauds and criminals because they know that such people are common in academia.

  • In my experience, talk of conspiracy theories is generally a better indicator of the state of mind of the person suggesting them than a basis for understanding the situation the person is attempting to explain. It would be nigh impossible for the CIA to control knowledge about LENR, even if it had its hands on a working device.

    Conspiracy theories are the in thing since the U.S. President absorbs them daily from the fringe web sites that he has long frequented; infowars is an example.


    The president and members of his cabinet all partake in conspiracy and fake news including Pizzagate:


    On YouTube, a step-by-step takedown of the Times article was viewed nearly 250,000 times and passed around on Twitter and Facebook. A surge of new fake articles amplified the original pieces, now linking the child-abuse ring — known as Pizzagate — to a global pedophilia ring reaching Britain.

  • In my opinion, there is a blindness that comes from ideological lenses and conspiracy theories when it comes to LENR. It results in over-reliance on anecdote and hand-waving away negative outcomes.


    An example of potentially blinding ideology would be: "Venture capitalists are evil greedy people who exploit everyone they work with for monetary gain." Or, "You can't trust anyone who has a lot of money." Or, "Governments always actively try to suppress any innovation that would lead to more egalitarian societies." Or, "I'd rather trust the word of a friend over empirical data which can be manipulated."


    The hard job of objectivity requires introspectively questioning your own biases and recognizing your own weaknesses. I kind of think that if you think it is easy to be objective, you probably haven't really tried. It is beneficial to work to separate one's biases, worldview, ideology, wishes, and anecdotes from empirical data. It is not for everyone and it is not easy especially when the subject of study has potentially world changing consequences. Objectivity is something to aspire to, and it seems like BG has taken on many other missions that he finds important. Unfortunately, they don't mix well with objectivity in evaluating LENR science.

  • Of all the bullshaite conspiracy nonsense I have heard is the 9/11 truther crap. My son was in school in NYC at the time. I was in Tysons Corner about 8 miles away on the north side of the GW parkway. Our family did many things that day, it was crazy.


    The planes did not hit at the same time. I remember it vividly. The smoke was visible from 8 miles. The city was a nightmare. Anyway we went to recover our kid who was fine. I guess people need to have a devil or something to believe in. If you are going to pick a battle to base your beliefs on this is not the one.

    The aftermath was war. This may have been an news event to others but the drums started. Flags were on every overpass. This was Pearl Harbor type of attack to frightened folks. This is what really pizzes me off. This conspiracy stuff is nonsense. Bob is having a breakdown, and FFS where are his friends?


    Create another thread if you want to. This is about redpill.

  • Picasso-150 wrote "check you math."


    No math there to check

    I just put Judy Wood's interpretation of a selected set of sequential photos.

    which Bob presumably looked at in his 'epiphany' period


    I am trying to check the validity of Bob's sources... that's all.

    thanks for you input.

    I don't think Bob is having a breakdown as Rigel suggests

    but I appreciate the concern


    Thanks for the reference about the other video

    The video you refer to , I think I found,

    is perhaps better for basing some maths on

    using a few assumptions on lengths and angles



    However reading the 76 comments attached to this video

    there appears to be no math based debunking to actually check

    IMO.

    If you have some maths to check please advise


    On an emotional level the horror of 2001 still registers with me,

    even though I was comfortably away in NZ at the time.

    God Bless America and Trump

  • RobertBryant ,

    I am just worried about Bob I have only seen him from being the voice of MFMP. I would like to talk to him. It is my nature to help if I can. One way I can help is to challenge this type of 9/11 truther stuff. So it is clear I will give the official view point. Some planes hit the building fully loaded with fuel and at a high speed. This resulted in an excess of kinetic and potential energy. A building that was modeled using techniques based on structural load only --- not 'finite element analysis' had the load points overwhelmed from impact from the planes--the max load was exceeded what the designers envisioned and they did not expect the degrees of freedom that happen with an explosion of that much energy.This building was not made out of tungsten alloys. It was flexible to a point. That point was exceeded exponentially as the building collapsed.

    Further the building plans specify each and every part in that building, that is how they do cost estimating so the banking underwriters know that the architects are being honest about the building costs.

    But I digress....


    May I ask what is your take on the 9/11? You sure know mine. Do you wish debunking? If you believe that it was nefarious regardless of who did what, please state why?

    And what math do you want?

  • I renamed the thread for clearity, because other MFMP members have distanced from Bob Greenyer's claims.


    I moved it to the Trash forum too, because it has nothing to do with LENR and contains only crazy claims which are harmful for LENR when directly connected to LENR research.

  • Quote

    "There is absolutely no logical sense for a government to suppress a technology"


    They're doing it from multiple reasons. The official one is to hide the technology for not to give the advantage for enemies of state. Hundreds of patents gets stalled and classified in this way each year in many countries. The underlying reasons are indeed deeper and they follow the preservation of status quo, which keeps the responsible people in power.

  • Rigel

    asked quite abit

    I was replying to Picasso, who asked me to check Maths.

    I had no maths to check.. but if he wants me to check some relevant maths I can try.. provided it doesn't involve quaternions or Lagrangians

    I, like Bob , am wary of official viewpoints, Anyone aware of LENR history should be wary of official viewpoints

    I was actually unaware of dr Judy's book or all the fuss about Its not high profile in the Southern hemisphere.

    Unaware as well re: EVO's.

    Its possible that both are relevant to LENR

    and by heaven its far more interesting than talking about Rossi etc

  • Quote

    I don't know in what Bob exactly got into, but his claims are more harmful for the credibility of LENR than the "evil elites" he is accusing to exectly doing this.Other MFMP members have distanced from Bob Greenyer's claims. Me356 may revoke his offer to let MFMP validate his reactor when Bob continues to damage his and MFMP's reputation.


    Bob Greener is just a twaddler, after all, like nearly everyone from Open-LENR community, because this community lacks discipline. He is on the verge of being the parasite of his sponsors - it has no meaning to cover it. But in the contemporary society you can get more visible and you'll get more money if you will make proclamations about things instead of actually doing them. I'm of course aware, that some infrastructure must be built and information must be shared - but the active core of LENR research is much narrower than the LENR community around it.

  • About state trying to block innovations like LENR.

    Barty make rational statements that it is stupid for a state to block a technology that others can develop, and this is a known fact in economy.

    Others answer that pocitician ca be stupid, and this is a known fact in history.


    Now, there is an error: to imagine that who drive the decision to block or not ideas, media, science, is not politicians but emerging intelligence (functional stupidity) of the administrations, and in more liberal countries, of the elites, media, NGOs...

    Some talk of deep state, but in France we say "the administration"... In fact the NGOs and media are more powerful today, while they are less competent and more ideological, which explains why we take more stupid decision today in liberal countries, than before.


    Some technologies are even forbidden for research in some countries like France...

    Not only LENR, but GM (de factor for farming), Fracking (even measuring reserves is forbidden), ..


    Among stupid things like blocking technology, you have protectionism, blocking mechanization, supporting expensive productions... this is a very common behavior when the deep state is prevented to protect our interested despite our bartender discussions.


    Recently I've learn that French deep state prevented a minister to sell France Uranium mines and competences to Qatar.

    Deep state is another name for so hatred technocracy...

    Now we have demagogy.


    Deep state is what is funding NRL, Nasa to test LENR (and EmDrive).

    Demagogy is NasaWatch, and APS lynching the pioneers.

  • Quote

    even measuring reserves is forbidden


    Well, such a "exploration" involves the test drills the continuity of which must be warranted by state for long time, the risk of ground water pollution and so on.

    For me the shale gas mining is the very last resort of solution of fossil fuel crisis and your agriculture depends on uncontaminated ground water sources very much.

    Not everything what your government does is therefore wrong and the ban of genetic organisms and the shale gas mining belongs into correct decisions, I guess.

    Of course the ignorance of some energy sources must be balanced by openness to research of another ones - or you are just waiting for crisis to happen.