Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • @ShaneD

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    Another minor note: I agree with what you said about Levi being the author of the first HT report in Ferrara.

    Maybe in Ferrera, I don't know because I don't bother to keep track of where the silly tests are run. But the first to test a hot cat was Penon. Remember Penon? And he did it specifically for and with Rossi using Rossi's methodology, Rossi's measuring methods and instruments and Rossi's input power. And all the other ones, including those done by the Swedish Blind Mice, are so similar that it is hardly worth noting the differences.


    Penon's test was August 2012. Know any earlier hot cat tests?


    Penon's 2012 report of hot cat test: https://www.scribd.com/doc/105…ctradius&medium=affiliate

  • I'd put a motor-generator power conditioner between the mains and the experiment. eg http://www.pscpower.com/rotary-power-conditioning/ and monitor the INPUT to that as the overall worst-case energy input. (Including its own losses, controllers and the actual "COP" input).

    Sounds good. Rossi had a generator lying around in one of the tests, giving a lousy impression. I would have a magician like James Randi inspecting all of it. Celani brought a Geiger counter and was scolded by Rossi for it, because it wouldn't take long for a skilled person to narrow down which nuclear interactions are taking place. And for goodness sake, I'd bring a thermometer or 2.

  • Thing is, you can point to a sheep. Even if it's only one sheep (and it's more now, of course). And you can analyze the sheep's DNA. There is no LENR sheep. That's why I keep asking for a self-sustaining cell or a powerful reactor, always to no avail or only to receive murky data that doesn't prove the claim. Remember the old lady in the Wendy's commercial who kept asking, "Where's the beef?" Well, my complaint about LENR from now on will be "Where is the f'n sheep?"


    Hagelstein had his NANOR/FUSOR running for months. And in fact someone came in off the street to visit him, made a video of it. That's where the f'n sheep was at that time. There have been other opportunities to visit other LENR devices operating. Eventually MFMP will fill that market need for a while.

  • I've already posted many many times that several people I communicate with personally have reported Rossi's fraud to multiple authorities in Florida and to the IRS.

    Good to know. Then the authorities are on it, and Rossi is free as a bird in the meantime -- until they round him up (which will be NEVER, based on current evidence in the docket) you'll be stuck jumping up and down saying he's a fraud. Maybe the next time you do that, someone will encourage you to pick up the phone yet again.

  • I've already posted many many times that several people I communicate with personally have reported Rossi's fraud to multiple authorities in Florida and to the IRS

    This demonstrate how tragic comedian you are.

    You are completely out of reality. Your right place should be a lunatic asylum .

    Now not by phone by writing and publishing documents why don't you make here your accusations ?

    Here and now.

    I really bet that you probably have nothing in your hand and also there is nobody who really denounced any crime of Rossi.

    As demonstrated also here he has been completely cleared in the past and there are no accusation pending on him.

  • @ Shane D.

    I agree with most of what you say. The one exception is the "arrangement of JONP's BOD's not being in chronological order", and your assigning some significance to that.

    I've been misunderstood. I meant the order in the Ecat "Hall of Fame" compiled by Krivit (1). That order doesn't reflect anymore the true order, after the publishing of the following statement in April 2016:


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    From http://www.infinite-energy.com…ng-a-lawsuit-in-lenr.html :


    "I heard how Mike became involved in starting to explore what he was doing. Rossi claimed to be closing in on producing a working LENR technology. He had American partners who had worked with the U.S. Navy and were familiar with the continuing interest of the Navy in energy technology. In late 2007 the company requested someone with technical interest and competence to view a demonstration."


    After this revelation, the Krivit's list should also includes somewhere the above cited "American partners". The previous excerpt mentions the 3 personae that should occupy the 3 top positions in that list, but we don't know in which order.


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    I doubt there is any meaning there, other than Rossi is as sloppy creating a website, as he is in his demos.

    Whom, do you think, did Krivit allude, when he wrote about the registration of that website in March 2010 (2)?


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    And I surely do not think any on JONP's BODs had anything to do with Rossi's scam.

    I never said that it is a "Rossi's scam". Can we, please, call it just the "Ecat affair", or something equivalent?


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    Or the fact that some are affiliated with the government, means there is some conspiracy.

    I never talked about conspiracies, either. Please, I'd prefer to stick on documented facts.


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    In fact, as you already know, Melich's (JONP BOD, and government affiliated scientist) wife wrote that article in her Infinite Energy Magazine when the lawsuit story broke, that "Rossi, enjoyed your company, nice guy, but you are not good for LENR and do not let the door hit you in the ass on your way out".

    I don't kwon why she wrote that article. It surprised me a lot, even if I always attributed a big importance to the JoNP's Board. Anyway, whichever was its purpose, that article is much more interesting for what it says about the "way in", rather than the "way out".


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    I agree with what you said about Levi being the author of the first HT report in Ferrara. Although Ferrara has survived scrutiny so far as I said, that does not in my mind dismiss the fact that Levi was it's main author, and his role in this affair is still very much in the air.

    It's obvious that Levi is the lead author of the Ferrara report, that's not what I meant.


    I wanted to stress that the first requisite for a report to be scrutinized is that the authors, especially the lead one, be all credible with respect to the subject treated by the report. In order to be considered a credible author on LENR, Levi should first explain why he used invented data to calculate the alleged excess heat reported in his January 2011 document. Until then, any scrutiny on his Ferrara's test report, as well on the Lugano's, has no meaning at all.


    (1) http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…sis-Confidence-Game.shtml

    (2) http://www.mail-archive.com/vo…@eskimo.com/msg38061.html

  • Alan, I am equally in the dark. But based on their situation what Mary assumes here does seem highly plausible.

    THH Mary FUD could be plausible just for people like you.

    Focardi had the maximum respect and consideration by all his University.

    If you ever would take time to read the docs in the net you would discover that his death was a tremendous mourning for the entire University.

    Focardi had positive results on LENR much before meeting Rossi.

    In that video from TED he appear sharp and clear in mind, A Great Scientist who says what he thinks in first person. Not an anonymous troll.


  • Hagelstein had his NANOR/FUSOR running for months. And in fact someone came in off the street to visit him, made a video of it. That's where the f'n sheep was at that time. There have been other opportunities to visit other LENR devices operating. Eventually MFMP will fill that market need for a while.

    Well, one thing is for certain, in my opinion, and that is that MFMP will never find any working LENR devices. They have already cried wolf numerous times. MFMP seems to have almost 0 rejection bias. I'm the opposite as I have close to a 100% rejection bias unless extremely airtight evidence is presented. For example, before I would waste any time considering a LENR claim, I would hire a local technician or student to use 2 simple measuring devices to make 3 measurements. I would not bother to go there myself to save on international travel costs. If there was even the slightest hesitation, resistance, interference, or delay with the taking of those measurements while the device was running in a state of claimed excess heat, I would immediately reject the claims permanently and move on to the next one. Out of every 1000 times this was done for claims of excess heat, I'd expect about 1 or 2 to not be due to obvious delusions or measurement error, and might require a followup visit with better measuring equipment. Out of 100 of these followups, I'd expect probably 1 to warrant serious investigation with more than a trivial amount of time or money invested.

  • Well, one thing is for certain, in my opinion, and that is that MFMP will never find any working LENR devices. They have already cried wolf numerous times. MFMP seems to have almost 0 rejection bias. I'm the opposite as I have close to a 100% rejection bias unless extremely airtight evidence is presented. For example, before I would waste any time considering a LENR claim, I would hire a local technician or student to use 2 simple measuring devices to make 3 measurements. I would not bother to go there myself to save on international travel costs. If there was even the slightest hesitation, resistance, interference, or delay with the taking of those measurements while the device was running in a state of claimed excess heat, I would immediately reject the claims permanently and move on to the next one. Out of every 1000 times this was done for claims of excess heat, I'd expect about 1 or 2 to not be due to obvious delusions or measurement error, and might require a followup visit with better measuring equipment. Out of 100 of these followups, I'd expect probably 1 to warrant serious investigation with more than a trivial amount of time or money invested.

    I thought MFMP had rejected 4 claims out of 4 so far. When they come up with their outbreak, it will be something along the lines of the Celani wire and a Geiger counter measuring Gamma rays, 2 things you'll be able to order yourself and do the test yourself. And naturally when you come up with your own positive results, you can skip all the hoohaw and simply call yourself a fraud to save all your friends all that trouble.

  • In other news, it has been mentioned that the Ecat qx has zero resistance. Violating the laws of physics wasn't enough I guess. They had to totally obliterate them. This statement is intended to be tongue in cheek and sarcastic, but IH might have discovered the Ecat had "zero" resistance before rejecting it.

  • I thought MFMP had rejected 4 claims out of 4 so far. When they come up with their outbreak, it will be something along the lines of the Celani wire and a Geiger counter measuring Gamma rays, 2 things you'll be able to order yourself and do the test yourself. And naturally when you come up with your own positive results, you can skip all the hoohaw and simply call yourself a fraud to save all your friends all that trouble.

    You didn't understand my post. I'm talking about bias even before considering a claim. Hundreds of millions of 2017 inflation adjusted dollars have been spent on LENR claims with nothing to show for it. MFMP seems to be positive about these claims some before they take measurements.

  • Hundreds of millions of 2017 inflation adjusted dollars have been spent on LENR claims with nothing to show for it.



    Cold Fusion is 25 ORDERS of MAGNITUDE better bang for the buck than Hot Fusion. -----------------------------------------------------


    In the past I had been comparing OverUnity Apples to UnderUnity Oranges. Up until this week, Controlled Hot Fusion (CHF) experiments haven't even broken overunity, let alone ignition. Nuclear fusion hits energy milestone http://www.cbc.ca/news/technol…nergy-milestone-1.2534140



    "The final reaction took place in a tiny "hot spot" about half the width of a human hair over about a ten thousandth of a millionth of a second. It released 17.3 kilojoules – almost double the amount absorbed by the fuel."


    look again at the two side by side:

    Cold fusion 2 * 3600 seconds average * 1/2* 300 Mjoules (Max) * 14,700 replications / $300k average = 105840 sec*MjouleSamples/$

    Hot fusion 0.5 seconds*10^-9 average * 1/2* 17.3K joules (max) * 20 replications / $2 Billion average = 0.0000000000000000003 sec*MjouleSamples/$



    That is now 25 ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more bang for the buck.


    It does not make sense to compare AVErage to MAXimum, anyways, because it depends upon having access to so much data that one can take the average of it. So I'm going to revise this aspect of the Bang4TheBuck calculation into 1/2 the maximum. One half of 300MJ is 150MJ. One half of 6MJ is 3MJ. Until we hear otherwise and need to revise it, shaving off an order of magnitude here or there.


    PRevious calculation:

    LENR is 14 orders of magnitude more bang for the buck than hot fusion.

    look at the two side by side:

    cold fusion 2 * 3600 seconds average * 300 Mjoules (Max) * 14,700 replications / $300k average = 105840 sec*MjouleSamples/$

    Hot fusion 0.5 seconds average * 6 Mjoules (max) * 20 replications / $2 Billion average = 0.00000003 sec*MjouleSamples/$

    That is now 14 ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more bang for the buck.


    On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

    Controlled Hot-Fusion has generated more energy for longer sustained periods. Until a few years ago the PPPL held the world record. 10 MW for about 0.6 s. (6 MJ). I think some other Tokamak topped that by a wide margin, but I am not sure.

    ***The average cold fusion experiment generates several hundred megajoules for several hours and costs maybe $300k. No, the average experiment generates a megajoule or two at most. Only a few have generated 10 to 300 MJ. - Jed

  • In other news, it has been mentioned that the Ecat qx has zero resistance. Violating the laws of physics wasn't enough I guess. They had to totally obliterate them. This statement is intended to be tongue in cheek and sarcastic, but IH might have discovered the Ecat had "zero" resistance before rejecting it.

    A battery when measured in series with a resistor might have zero resistance. And it doesn't violate the laws of physics.

  • Maybe in Ferrera, I don't know because I don't bother to keep track of where the silly tests are run. But the first to test a hot cat was Penon. Remember Penon?


    Mary,


    Remember, I have a PhD in Bologna, and minors in Ferrara and Lugano. :) You are almost correct. Yes, the first Hotcat (HT) test was not Levi's, yet the real 1st test by Penon you refer to, was only *signed* by him. Lewan reported last year, that he had learned from Rossisays, that Penon was not the one who did the test. Now that brings up the question of who did that first test?...well, that is another mystery. Rossi had said his "Colonel" would "sign off" on the final report, yet when it bled out in the fall 2012, Penon made his first appearance in this saga with his signature.


    What I was referring to was the first Levi HT test in Ferrara, and considering the complex circumstances, you are forgiven for mixing them up.

  • THH Mary FUD could be plausible just for people like you.

    Focardi had the maximum respect and consideration by all his University.

    If you ever would take time to read the docs in the net you would discover that his death was a tremendous mourning for the entire University.

    Focardi had positive results on LENR much before meeting Rossi.

    In that video from TED he appear sharp and clear in mind, A Great Scientist who says what he thinks in first person. Not an anonymous troll.


    My point, and Mary's, which while speculative is reasonable "what would be expected" speculation, and in no way disrespectful to Focardi, is nowhere affected by this comment. Replying to relevant comments with facts not related as though they disprove the comments is well-known anonymous troll behaviour. I recommend you to sharpen your intellect and filter your posts to avoid it.

  • Replying to speculations with yet more speculations is troll like behaviour for sure.


    Really? Most of the comment here, and everything about LENR theory, are speculative. You have just classified the whole site as only of interest to trolls.


    While as moderator your decisions are your business, I think this criterion would benefit from being made more specific!


    Furthermore: my comment here was replying to a non-speculative illogical insult, and was itself not speculative. I note that you have green inked my: "Replying to relevant comments with facts not related as though they disprove the comments is well-known anonymous troll behaviour." Something a moderator might say? And not green-inked any of the quoted post that I was commenting on, which contained specific personalisation. I accept the "sharpen your intellect" sentence as overstepping the bounds of courtesy. Perhaps, since his/her posts cause me to make such comments I should just filter him/her.

  • Really? Most of the comment here, and everything about LENR theory, are speculative. You have just classified the whole site as only of interest to trolls.


    All theories are to a greater or lesser degree speculative, LENR theory is in good company there, But speculating about the state of mind some years ago of a person of note now deceased is a task for either a historian or a psychic - especially when the speculation has nothing to do with actual science.