Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • You do remember the whole Defkalion fiasco, don't you? It's safe to say that was the turning point of the whole saga.


    Roger,


    No, I do not remember DGT (Defkalion). You did not mnetion him, but I also do not know of Xanthoulis, their CEO. Nor DGT's claiming to have heated the Athens Police Academy. For that matter, I also do not know about NASA's Nelson paying them a visit and semi-endorsing their Hyperion reactor. Their moving to Vancouver, Canada, and then establishing a partnership with some college in Seattle...nope, do not know about that either.


    I missed also the part where they spoofed the ICCF with their video and the pump thing. Then Prof. Kim aligning with them, and later, after DGT was disgraced, and he was hired by Cyclone Engines, and even later when IH funded him to the tune of $400,000.


    Nope, I do not know this Defkalion you talk of. :)

  • I follow both fusion( called hot fusion here) and these claims of CF/LENR which I find inconclusive at best. The next hot fusion reactor up is the Wendelstein 7 thing. This thing doesn't gain as much attention as ITER, EAST, NIF, etc because they are not trying to go for the homerun of overunity. Instead, they are apparently only trying to verify heating power, containment, and plasma generation. As these are the three most difficult items for hot fusion, this babystep approach makes sense.


    https://translate.google.com/t…870882&edit-text=&act=url

  • Rossi is truly a genius. He can access Skype but not the internet.


    Quote

    “We are under very strong winds and raid, with heavy flooding. Please inform on EW that I am not able to access the JoNP for the time being.

    I am safe well shielded and working too, but completely insulated.


    Hope and patience are necessary.

    In this moment Skype is working, but it comes and goes

    More goes than comes”


    http://e-catworld.com/2017/09/…irma-bears-down-on-miami/

  • “We are under very strong winds and raid, with heavy flooding. Please inform on EW that I am not able to access the JoNP for the time being.

    I am safe well shielded and working too, but completely insulated.


    Hope and patience are necessary.

    In this moment Skype is working, but it comes and goes

    More goes than comes”


    Rossi is pretty well unique in this area in being so concerned with his day-to-day interactive communication with fans, WE, JoNP, etc. He is a showman by inclination and ability.


    That fact should condition strongly any objective evaluation of his work, and I'm sure does for most observers. But, there will always be the 1% outliers, and 1% of a potentially very large interested audience in industry and academia is enough to keep things going. EW constituted the 1%, and this place has a fair number of them, so reading here you get a skewed view.

  • Quote

    The clock is ticking.

    And the investors continue to take a licking!


    Quote

    If he is going to have 40 in attendance as Rossisays, it will be interesting to see if they show their face.

    Hard to say. Quite a few showed their faces in 2011 for the "megawatt plant" demo only to be ridiculously disappointed. All they got was a bad actor (a Rossi stooge) claiming to be a representative of a never revealed customer and a scrawled note on a dirty piece of paper purporting to prove power and energy production. None was allowed to watch the running device at close range. For safety reasons of course. None was allowed to review the instrumentation. Also for safety reasons -- Rossi's safety, in that case. Why would this upcoming demo be any less of a fiasco and a farce (One always has to overuse cliche terms to describe what Rossi does).

  • Mary,


    Absolutely agree with you. What I do find of interest this time around, compared to the 28 Pct 2011 demo, is that Rossi no longer has the benefit of the doubt as he did 6 years ago. Anyone attending this demo will probably have either read the court documents that clearly show Rossi to be blatantly deceitful, or read enough on LF to know.


    Remember that last time Rossi had just come off one of his more believable demos that took place 6 Oct 2011. Focardi was still alive, and Kullander was lending him some credibility, so it was hard not to be open to the possibility that Rossi was legitimate. Now it is the other way around...no one trusts the guy except some on ECW. So whomever attends, or watches, will be on their utmost guard for his trickery. Not that that will make it impossible for Rossi to fake it, but much harder than the last time.


    Anyway you look at it, even if the demo appears honest and authentic, there will always be doubt until a truly independent evaluation happens. Last that happened, we know what IH found. Big question mark now is....did Rossi actually round up another investor? Hard to believe he could have with all that has happened recently, but it would not surprise me if he did. Especially with these persistent rumors of the Swedes having replicated their own Lugano results.


    The Swedes are are largely responsible for IH's hanging with Rossi so long as they did, and they may be a factor with any new investor now. If so, and they get ripped off, all I can say is do not expect any sympathy from me.

  • Anyone attending this demo will probably have either read the court documents that clearly show Rossi to be blatantly deceitful, or read enough on LF to know.

    Well..... perhaps not.


    My gut feeling is that "40 people" will attend according to Rossi, but they will be under strict NDA (everything is always NDA with Rossi) and we will not hear a single peep from any of them. So can one then actually believe anyone attended? :/ Unless they publicly confirm, what can one believe. And I do NOT mean posting "I attended and saw marvelous, wonderful things" on JONP under "Darrin" or "Jane" is a confirmation that someone actually attended! :rolleyes:


    Frank Acland wants to attend, but my gut feeling is that Rossi will not allow him. ECW is the last bastion of Rossi support. While I do not think Frank would "push the envelope" is questioning Rossi while at the test site, if the demo was so obviously bad that even Frank would not praise it, then the damage would be severe. No, I really doubt Frank will be allowed to attend. But perhaps not. Frank would take everything Rossi said as truth. He does so on his blog almost everyday.


    There was a buildup of expectations in for the release of tests results with a new partner in June of 2016. It was to be a marvelous revealing of the QuarkX with the "satisfied" customer. That test reveal was the blurry blue photo. No data, no test setup, no protocol, nothing but a blurry blue photo. ECW went into orgasm with joy and the faithful accepted it without question. This all turned out to be a lie per Rossi's court deposition. There was no new partner, no new customer.


    Now another test is announced and people are believing a great reveal will be made. History with Rossi has proven one thing... he always disappoints. This so called test will be no different. I feel that the test will be not much more than the blurry blue photo, perhaps with a "Gullstrom" like paper attached. Remember when people were stating Gullstrom must have been in Florida during the QuarkX test? Lewans now confirms he was not. Another disappointment, although no one really took that paper seriously, they have already forgot the fact that Gullstrom MUST have been at the test! Another deceiving story!


    I ask the question again to the supporters.... "Why do you still support Rossi? On what evidence do you conclude he has the real goods? I am not asking for you to argue my criticisms, I ask of you on what factual basis do you think Rossi is truthful, to be believed and has a working LENR reactor? What is the foundation of your continued support?" Pehaps clearly outlining it will help me regain my lost faith in Rossi! :thumbup:

  • Figuring out why anyone with a shred of intelligence believes Rossi is anything other than a con man is by far the most interesting challenge in these parts. And it only gets more difficult with time.


    The only justifications one hears are (1) esteemed scientists from prestigious institutions vouch for Rossi (which is a joke from multiple perspectives), or (2) there is secret information that random internet bozos have that the rest of us cannot be privvy to, or (3) (the most common answer) anyone who doubts Il Douche is an evil skeptopath and a shill for the all-powerful hot fusion industry and is just spreading fear (of actual facts in this case), uncertainty, and doubt (which is bit like crapping on a mountain of manure.)

  • Shane,


    Rossi can rustle up 40 stooges for his demo

  • Rossi

    "they reproduced the reactor in the laboratories of the Uppsala University and followed the instructions contained in my patent.

    I know the measurements have been very conservative, always considering only the lower values of the margin of error of the instrumentation."

    Anyone care to hazard a translation of Rossian?


    Uppsala COP=1.0? COP=10 ? COP= 1000?

  • The problem I have with this analysis is that ITER is an experiment designed by physicists and not a power plant as it doesn't produce electricity. It is clearly designed to have extra measurement, calibration, monitoring, and safety equipment. This extra gear uses power. The data collected from ITER, good and bad, will be used to refine the next designs on the way to making a power plant. The criticism from the CF/LENR community of ITER is expected. Once fusion is proven to work in a controlled manner by physicists, what little longshot, 1 in 100+ chance, funding for CF/LENR that remains will disappear.

  • The problem I have with this analysis is that ITER is an experiment designed by physicists and not a power plant as it doesn't produce electricity. It is clearly designed to have extra measurement, calibration, monitoring, and safety equipment. This extra gear uses power. The data collected from ITER, good and bad, will be used to refine the next designs on the way to making a power plant. The criticism from the CF/LENR community of ITER is expected. Once fusion is proven to work in a controlled manner by physicists, what little longshot, 1 in 100+ chance, funding for CF/LENR that remains will disappear.


    That is hardly correct. ITER-style fusion would be v large scale. Even the proposed much smaller fusion reactors (an outside chance, just like LENR, except the issues are technological and fairly quickly resolved as breakers or OK) are still pretty big. Whereas LENR if it ever lived up to the promise would allow small-scale cheap power.


    So the reason LENR enthusiasts are so dismissive of hot fusion is not I think competition. More it is that hot fusion, though difficult and unclear in terms of final outcome, has clear science backing it with scientific results continuing to emerge. I think that, and the apparent inequity of massive funding for hot fusion, makes LENR enthusiasts unhappy, and the shrill condemnation relates to that.

  • More it is that hot fusion, though difficult and unclear in terms of final outcome, has clear science backing it with scientific results continuing to emerge.

    No one I know objects to the clear scientific backing. That makes no sense. By that standard, cold fusion researchers would object to natural gas turbines, wind turbines, coal, uranium fission, and every other existing energy source, since they all have clear science backing them (not to mention actual technology). The problems are:


    1. There is no likely engineering path to electric power generation. Nothing has been seriously explored as far as I know.


    2. The extreme radioactivity destroys the device too quickly to make it cost effective.


    3. The device apparently only works on such a large scale it would not be suitable for many applications.


    4. Conventional sources such as PV are likely to be much cheaper and safer.


    5. The budget allocated is disproportional to the likely technology. This much money allocated to wind or PV power would likely produce a much larger ROI.


    6. Conventional nuclear power such as advanced fission are safer and more cost effective. See Krakowski et. al:


    http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KrakowskiRlessonslea.pdf

  • I think if I have a minor objection to ITER NIF in the context of LENR, it is something along these lines:

    • I don't get the sense that dropping a series of hohlraums into an intense laser field will ever provide a practical path to power generation (echoing Jed's point 1). If at some point they discover something valuable from that research, they'll still need to scrap the whole setup and try something new, almost from scratch. Just my hunch/intuition.
    • It seems to me that if something as speculative as ITER NIF is awarded years and decades of funding, with what amounts to a blank check, an amount that is orders of magnitude less could profitably be invested in exploring the empirical claims (in contrast to theoretical ones) pertaining to LENR, in the event that there is something there. (In my view a non-trivial possibility.) If there is something shown to be there, it is much more easy to envision a viable engineering path to a practical energy source than ITER NIF, which (per the previous point) will need to be reworked even if something comes out of it.

    ETA: Meant NIF (not directly pertinent to this thread) rather than ITER.

  • I think if I have a minor objection to ITER in the context of LENR, it is something along these lines:

    I don't get the sense that dropping a series of hohlraums into an intense laser field . . .

    That is inertial confinement fusion (laser fusion). Not ITER. ITER is magnetic confinement, a.k.a. Tokamak.


    I have heard that inertial confinement is conducted mainly as a way to develop nuclear weapons. It is no longer considered a likely source of energy, given the difficulties it has encountered. It is a way of doing physical tests without setting off bombs, which would violate the 1996 Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. A DoE weapons guy once told Gene Mallove that the inertial confinement program is "a pimple on the ass of production." ("Production" is DoE and DoD jargon meaning the production of nuclear weapons.)

  • If something is hotter than it's environment, it's easy enough to extract and convert that energy into whatever form you please.

    Most of the energy from a Tokamak is the form of neutron radiation. Various schemes have been proposed to convert this radiation into heat, which can then be used to produce steam to generate electricity. I think most of these methods call for a blanket of material of some sort that absorbs neutrons. That is challenging and inefficient, as you might imagine. The blanket becomes highly radioactive in a short time.


    Proposals exhibited to Congress to use a Tokamak as a power source used to include schematics with a large, imaginary blank space between the block symbol for the reactor and the steam turbines. I guess that indicated "somehow we get from A to B . . ."

  • Quote

    Yes we do. We discovered that IH found it to work, notwithstanding the smoke.


    They did? We know that how? Nonsense. The smoke is what Darden was blowing up people's you-know-whats for going on three years about Rossi's scam. That's what gave you that impression, isn't it? If not, what?