Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

  • In the past two tests a visually smooth and robust layer of iron plating was obtained using diluted electrolyte with just over the standard cell potential of 1.23 volts for water. For those tests, anodes of pure Fe were used, and neither cell showed any LEC effect.


    The successful tests reported by others apparently used mild steel anodes, which would include small amounts of carbon, silicon and manganese as well as traces of sulfur and phosphorous. Could the presence of such elements at less than 1% play a role in the phenomenon?

  • Yup. Ed confirmed this.


    In my own words:


    A gap large enough to hold recombined D2 gas inside the lattice is too big for his model. It has to be smaller than that. He wants individual deuterons lining up in a row, not D2 molecules. (Deuterons or "H mono" as Cydonia calls them above.) The cracks forming around a large gap would also be too big.

    To clarify what I meant, I did not suggest that LENR would be occurring inside large gaps where hydrogen can recombine to H2 (or D2), but that such large gaps would possibly help increasing stress and pressure elsewhere in the same lattice, i.e. the small gaps where LENR does occur. In other words, perhaps a mixture of small and large gaps could be beneficial, although this is probably easier said than achieved in practice. It's only a loose idea, though.


    In the past two tests a visually smooth and robust layer of iron plating was obtained using diluted electrolyte with just over the standard cell potential of 1.23 volts for water. For those tests, anodes of pure Fe were used, and neither cell showed any LEC effect.


    The successful tests reported by others apparently used mild steel anodes, which would include small amounts of carbon, silicon and manganese as well as traces of sulfur and phosphorous. Could the presence of such elements at less than 1% play a role in the phenomenon?

    Perhaps carbon? For what it's worth, Frank Gordon has reported a few months ago that an experimenter who tried adding alcohol saw increased results.


  • Well,

    Storms proposal considers a reaction between 2 D together then what i suggest is rather a reaction between a simple H ( not H2) with an atom from the metal lattice to generate X rays.

    As magicsound said to not have seen any effect with only simple iron, i suggest the isotope involvement rather than another species as carbon, sulfur or phosphorous.

    i remember this old paper from CEA retired by which they propose this way.

    You should use Google document translation to leave from the french.

    i can send the native .doc for people who should ask me.

  • Hi - right now the LEC is indeed 'interesting but not useful'. But the purpose of scientific investigation is to make it both interesting AND useful.

    The purpose of scientific investiation is to understand what is going on.


    After that - it has more chance of being useful.


    I have two ideas for a mechanism but my knowledge of chemistry is not good enough, so maybe they are rubbish, and likely they has been raised in these 48 pages already.


    1. Pd is a well-known catalyst. Suppose vacancies in a Pd surface can at a small rate catalyse something that generates ions. Straight electron or proton generation from H2 is a big ask due to tight binding but maybe not impossible? Free electron or proton generation from some more complex reaction is also possible, especially if the atmosphere contains impurities. That might make for low-level ionisation. Palladium vacancies can do weird things.


    2. There is also: https://www.spacefoundation.or…catalytic-ionization-rci/ radiant photocatalytic ioniszation. That might be relevant.


    The voltage, and it possibly reversing, could be varying rates of this catalysis happening, or something else...


    Best wishes, THH

  • Have you already considered scratching the plate surface?


    One might divide the plate into sections, say 3 by 3. Then proceed to abrade each area using different methods - or grits.


    I wonder if rolling a knurler over the plate might be useful? Or perhaps access to a shaper could get the job done.


    "Brass is difficult to file because it is softer than steel, but tough. This

    demands teeth that are sharp, sturdy and cut to prevent grooving
    and running the file off the work. The Brass file has a short upcut
    angle and a fine long angle over-cut which produces small scallops
    to break up filings and enable the file to clear. With pressure, the
    sharp high-cut teeth bite deep, with less pressure, the short upcut
    angle smoothes."


    Please forgive me if this is something you have already explored, Alan.

  • Bad plating! This done using the ferrous sulphate based electrolyte -2.2 volts and 0.1A for 8 days. Thick plating, but very poor adhesion.

    I had best results with diluted plating solution and 1.3 volts, just enough to make some hydrogen appear. After several days at 90 mA the resulting plated layer was well adhered and smooth.

  • You are entirely forgiven .This was - as magicsound intimates, a result of too high a voltage for too long. I have had quite a few business meetings away from the lab and this got rather neglected.


    As for filing, difficult on a thin flat plate, but I burnish the plate with 600 grit abrasive paper, scrub it under hot water and then degrease with alchohol. It normally works.


    BTW- the regular and rectangular pattern of cracking is interesting -and a puzzle.

  • In the previous weeks I tested a number of "variations" that do not produced any voltage (0.0 +-0.1 mV). These variation were for example loading plain iron rods with hydrogen (electrolytically), reloading my old WE with hydrogen (without plating), and similar things. These tests, even bringing a zero result, provided a couple of valuable information: 1) up to now the effect seems to require a proper full co-deposition, otherwise it won't manifest; 2) when no effect is present a stubborn 0.0 mV is seen on my multimeter, no possibility of error;

    So, after continously seeing this 0.0 mV in many experiments, I wonted to repeat the original experiment, to check if the "magic" would happen again.

    I repeated the exact protocol that I've followed in June, with some minor variations (e.g. I used the old WE, without even cleaning it from the old plating, and I used a slightly different anode configuration). The plating process proceded just like the first time, with about 4 hours of hydrogen evolution but no plating, and the remaining 4 hour with the formation of a black layer. Also the strange magnetization of the WE at the end was the same.

    When the LEC was assembled, the voltage re-appeared! It slowly increased to about 100 mV, then dropped in half an hour to about 35-40 mV, and it settled there for many hours. After about 1 hour, I filled the LEC with hydrogen (flushing out the air) to prevent the fast oxidation. The hydrogen apparently caused a slight drop in the voltage (about 5 mV). The voltage however persisted for about 3 days, even decreasing over time.

    After the 3rd day I opened the LEC and found the WE *completely* oxidized: no trace of metallic iron, the black layer competely turned to orange iron oxide (rust). This iron oxide was perfecly in place, well attached to the brass as the black layer was. During the operation, I checked from time to time the conductivity of the device and I always found an open circuit, so no conductive path were formed during the oxidation process (by means of detached flakes or something like that).

    In conclusion, the effect is repeatable. However it is a bit difficult to control: small process variations may produce different results, and the fast oxidation is definitely a problem (at least with the acidic plating).

    Next step will be trying the original Frank's FeCl2 recipe.

  • James Patterson planted a lot of seeds with his thin beads... His thin plating skills were considered cutting edge. He applied those skills to create multiple metallic thin layers in early successful cold fusion experiments in ways similar to those here (LEC). Lawrence Forsley knew him well and studied his works. His plating and co-deposition methods were pioneering. Perhaps useful to read up on. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon rings in the layering mix may be worth revisiting now.


    My Recollections of Jim Patterson

    By Lawrence P. G. Forsley

    March 10th 2008

    New Energy Times

    Issue#27

    New Energy Times Issue #27


    https://e-catworld.com › 2013/04/24

    Notice from Francesco Celani on Hydrocarbons in LENR | E-Cat World

    Apr 24, 2013 — Is it just me or did not the Widom Larsen theory predict this??? Would be nice with some input from the e-catworld experts :).

    http://blog.lege.net › Free_Energy

    LENR - Widom-Larsen Theory Portal

    The Widom-Larsen Ultra-Low-Momentum Neutron Catalyzed Theory of Low-Energy ... meets chemistry - Mizuno experiments with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.

    https://coldfusionnow.org › tag › he...

    Tag: heavy electron - COLD FUSION NOW!

    The NASA LENR patent is for a device to produce heavy electrons thereby sustaining LENR and ensuing energy generation. In this slideshow, a Widom Larson .

  • Stevenson
    I recall from your earlier postings that plating an iron rod with iron (as a WE) does not result in a significant voltage. Can you confirm?


    If this is the case there are probably 2 WE conditions that are required to generate electricity:

    1) 2 different metals of one is a platted layer

    2) plating should be done by means of electrochemical deposition

    This fulfills two conditions: a platted layer that has sufficient absorbed hydrogen atoms + there is a clear inter-metal junction that provides sufficient galvani potential between the two metal layers.


    A galvani potential between two metal layers provides a very thin so called 'double layer' of charges, which in turn provides a local very strong (inter-metal) electrical field at the location of this double layer (1-3*108 V/m!)

    This large electrical field density may have following effects:

    - ionization of hydrogen atoms passing through the plated layer

    - catalyze hydrogen atom absorption into the metal surface underneath the plated layer (e.g. brass) during (iron) plating.


    In the case of LEC with plated WE (of different metals) there are actually two 'double layer' areas:

    - between the two metal layers

    - between the plated metal layer and the 'air' surrounding the WE.


    Since iron-iron WE (iron rod plated with iron) does not seem to provide any LEC voltage it appears that the double layer between two different metals is key to provide the observed voltage.

  • Since iron-iron WE (iron rod plated with iron) does not provide any LEC voltage it appears that the double layer between two different metals is key to provide the observed


    This is not yet proven to be the case, being subject to ongoing studies, although double-plating brass (iron plated on top of iron plate) has not so far yielded good results, no 'null' but sub 100mV. I have just taken delivery of some zinc and titanium sheet, since I am interested in expanding the materials research side of things, and also like Stevenson looking again at Frank's own plating methods.

  • The MFMP did a livestream today that has interesting ideas around the behavior of certain catalysts as electron scavengers and, focusing on a specific 2014 Japanese patent, that suggests that this mechanism could play a role on explaining the observations on the LEC on air. There’s a core of literature mentioned and a discussion about the main aspects but is also a challenge to the audience to explore this venue from the LEC perspective.


    It is suggested to watch a recent Biberian’s LEC presentation before, will post both links:


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    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Curbina

    If you want to obtain a steel/iron surface coated with such trivalent Fe oxides a simple way is just wetting it with relatively concentrated KOH or NaOH solution and heating it up above 300 °C or so to make the solution evaporate. The rust formed on the piece will quickly react with the hydroxide compound and form an interesting green-looking oxide material that easily decomposes with water/grabs water. I even showed the process using KOH in another thread a while back using very crude methods. The process does not work at low temperatures with Fe2O3 / red hematite, though, it needs rust as FeOOH.


    EDIT: by the way, the patent referred in the video linked by Curbina, which I wasn't aware of when I made those tests, is this one: JP2014047082A - Higher alkali metal-transition metal oxide - Google Patents . The suggestion was that on some level alkali impurities would be forming similar oxides on the LEC cathode. The authors here seem to be suggesting that the same material is a "nuclear reaction inducer".


    Quote

    Abstract

    PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To provide a multifunctional and low-cost higher alkali metal-transition metal oxide.SOLUTION: The inside of a stainless steel- or iron-made reaction cell 1 is filled with an oxygen-free atmosphere, an alkali metal-containing compound such as NaOH or KTiOis placed therein as a reactant, fine particles of the reactant are scattered therein by heating the reaction cell 1 to 500-700°C, a higher alkali metal-transition metal oxide film is generated on an inside wall of the reaction cell 1 by supplying steam to the reaction cell 1, and the oxide film is used as a moisture absorbent, a hydrogen storage material, an electrode material of a fuel cell, and a nuclear reaction inducer.

  • Nice videos, thank you BG and Curbina. I should point out that the LEC works just as well without any Sodium in the system. AFAIK Biberian, Stevenson, and Frank Gordon haven't done so. @magic sound has I think started using this method...but not certain.

    Well, I think that what Bob proposes is beyond the presence of Na or K, it’s about the conditions that favor the formation or action of an electron scavenger, as a way to help force H into the materials.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

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    Making a simple and relatively safe plating solution...

  • Cutting brass sheet for cathodes....


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