US Navy new LENR patent application (25/03/2021)

  • Personally I think the thermite thing is a 'red herring' with a very fishy smell.

    Just a quick note: I think this whole endeavor is surrealistic. The inventors AFAIK are completely unrelated to LENR at least in what one can find quickly on the web. The patent states it is the result of work done under the orders of the US Navy, so this leaves much more questions than answers.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Once again when a premise is wrong with what you expected, you are always in denial.

    Just a quick note: I think this whole endeavor is surrealistic. The inventors AFAIK are completely unrelated to LENR at least in what one can find quickly on the web. The patent states it is the result of work done under the orders of the US Navy, so this leaves much more questions than answers.

  • it was necessary to rewrite the patent because of the too many copy/paste.

    However it must be wrong because Homlid and UDH weren't involved ( i'm joking :) )

    The patent application has already had a non-final rejection but the related documentation showing the reasons why doesn't seem to be yet available.


  • Rossi also reported evolution of neutrons during overheating of his former E-Cat reactors (filled by just mixture of nickel/lithium/hydrogen and possibly some heavy metal spillover catalyst). So that heating this mixture with thermite directly or indirectly seems viable approach to fusion - the other question is, what such an approach would be good for from practical perspective. And of course we have many reports of thermal breakdowns of nuclear reactions (1, 2). In a question and answer session, Rossi was asked why he was limiting his reactors at the time to a COP of 6, when it had been reported that in early testing of the E-Cat it had been able to reach COPs of around 200. This was his response:


    "You have correctly said that when we made the first experiments we had a COP: 200; we were working with powers of some hundreds of watts. We were working at an absolutely experimental situation. Now we are making products that have to be sold to industries at the moment (because the domestic have not been certified for safety). It is right to make a Forumula 1 car to race, and to push to the extreme an engine, to learn how to make normal engines, and to make a car that has to be driven by normal people like me. To go to a COP 200 is extremely dangerous, and when I worked at those powers it happened that ~we had some escape of neutrons~, in some situation. For obvious reasons this is very dangerous. This is why we had to reduce to 6, and this is why we have to limit the self-sustain mode . . . we must stay within the absolutely sure safety limits, this is very important."


    Actually this experience may be one of reasons, why A. Rossi abandoned E-Cat route of research - especially for domestic reactors, where risk of mishandling cannot be avoided. No one would want to held responsible for distribution of small neutron bombs..

  • I spent some time trying to check what has been said in the comments of this thread today.


    Specially in regards to the claims of plagiarism, which I have to say, unfortunately I think are very well founded at least in part. A paragraph in the description of this newly published application is unforgivably similar to one on the granted application of Rossi.


    I am really astonished to see that a patent application filed on behalf of the US Navy has such a blatant plagiarism. Is really unconceivable.


    Now we have learnt thanks to Can and also Ahlfors that the application has a non final rejection, but we don't know yet the reasons (BTW, can , you have to tell me where does one find that description of the administrative steps of the application, I haven't been able to find it!). Most probably the rejection is due to the detection of the plagiarism, if not something more obvious as the "impossibility of LENR" usually resorted to.


    All things considered, I would expect this kind of charade from a patent troll, but not from an Armed Forces institution, so I am really astonished and badly impressed.


    Let's not see all in black, and let's rescue the earlier announcement of a new research initiative to assess the reproducibility of LENR, that will be carried out by the US Navy. This is great news, specially because it is a recognition that the amount of evidence gathered, even if hard to reproduce, points towards a real phenomena that is in much need of been further elucidated.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Curbina,

    To find the communications on US patent applications one has to use USPTO Public Pair

    Then insert the application number, in this case 16/579930.

    (Sometimes you have to re-try if you get the message ´not available´).

    This will bring you to the Public Patent Application Information Retrieval page, then select "Transaction History" tab.

    The actual documents can be selected and retrieved from the "Image file wrapper" tab.

  • I think this whole endeavor is surrealistic.

    The post about Oliver Barham et al from the Navy's Indian Head facility investigating LENR once again... is apparently encouraging...

    the fact that he left out Chiara et als Molybdenum 93 investigation from his upcoming

    nuclear batteries presentation is intriguing..

    we know that the energy from nuclear orbitals is a million times more than from electronic orbital.. but is it weaponisable?? ..


    It's possible that Indian Head does not talk to Adelphi

    and it is possible that Oliver is only interested in longlasting nonweaponisablle storage batteries..

    Anyway I sent Oliver an email starting


    Hi..
    I guess it is diplomatic to steer away from the weapons capability.
    There might be a few references you could look at before your presentation in August
    The quantity of the energy stored in nuclear 'orbitals' is a from 3-6 orders of magnitude that stored in electron orbitals..as you know.
    Luckily the Creator has made it difficult to unlock this energy..
    in a controlled way
    however mere mortals are working on it...
    You are probably aware of Chiara's work with Mo93m over in the Adelphi lab not far from you. 2.4 Mevs? if only it could be controlled..
    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1904.00809.pdf
    and then there is the Niobium 93m work.. only 31 Kev but
    storage is long..16 yrs.. work by Cheng
    https://www.tandfonline.com/do…50.2014.988623?src=recsys
    Then there is Hagelstein's Co-57..
    https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/121824...

  • It's not difficult to reach a COP 200 even with your own car. You just have to remove the cooling circuit. In AR case, to reach this level, he just isolated a little more his device. Next the major problem was rather the difficulty to drive it because XSH were released mostly by intense bursts. About Neutron, i should add that Focardi said they found neutrons when they tried another mix , no nickel. A friend i have expected the D2 using in certain trials.. For myself, i expect rather the testing of metal as titanium.

    I'm no a special expert at this stage, maybe more skilled than me could tell which metal could do more neutrons than nickel by H merging ?

    Rossi also reported evolution of neutrons during overheating of his former E-Cat reactors (filled by just mixture of nickel/lithium/hydrogen and possibly some heavy metal spillover catalyst). So that heating this mixture with thermite directly or indirectly seems viable approach to fusion - the other question is, what such an approach would be good for from practical perspective. And of course we have many reports of thermal breakdowns of nuclear reactions (1, 2). In a question and answer session, Rossi was asked why he was limiting his reactors at the time to a COP of 6, when it had been reported that in early testing of the E-Cat it had been able to reach COPs of around 200. This was his response:


    "You have correctly said that when we made the first experiments we had a COP: 200; we were working with powers of some hundreds of watts. We were working at an absolutely experimental situation. Now we are making products that have to be sold to industries at the moment (because the domestic have not been certified for safety). It is right to make a Forumula 1 car to race, and to push to the extreme an engine, to learn how to make normal engines, and to make a car that has to be driven by normal people like me. To go to a COP 200 is extremely dangerous, and when I worked at those powers it happened that ~we had some escape of neutrons~, in some situation. For obvious reasons this is very dangerous. This is why we had to reduce to 6, and this is why we have to limit the self-sustain mode . . . we must stay within the absolutely sure safety limits, this is very important."


    Actually this experience may be one of reasons, why A. Rossi abandoned E-Cat route of research - especially for domestic reactors, where risk of mishandling cannot be avoided. No one would want to held responsible for distribution of small neutron bombs..

  • Heating these heaters does not give anything interesting, as Parkhomov said that he would heat Siberia stupidly. We need low temperatures and it is the planet Earth itself. Make a planet, get new energy...

    Нефть - это кровь планеты, надо сделать модель планеты и мы получим генератор Тарасенко, эта энергия покорит вселенную! :lenr:

  • (BTW, can , you have to tell me where does one find that description of the administrative steps of the application, I haven't been able to find it!)

    An alternative is also through the USPTO global dossier, which can be more easily linked in discussions, etc. For example see this previously published patent. The one being discussed right now is not yet available.


    https://globaldossier.uspto.go…tails/US/13420109/A/71357

    Click "View Dossier"


    On a related note, I don't think plagiarism matters in patent descriptions as long as a new implementation is being defined in the claims.

  • Humanity is having a difficult time saving just one planet...


    Maybe Putin can make a new planet and call it Sputnik 6..Chernobyl survivors assess fact and fiction in TV series - BBC News

    I live in Kazakhstan, but Putin can do anything to make sure that he still has bombs and he has poisoned all these people among themselves. Our Soviet system has lost, I want another life-FREEDOM!

    Нефть - это кровь планеты, надо сделать модель планеты и мы получим генератор Тарасенко, эта энергия покорит вселенную! :lenr:

  • Next the major problem was rather the difficulty to drive it because XSH were released mostly by intense bursts.


    Massive localised XSH release in spurts seems to be frequent in much LENR research..

    unfortunately deuterium fusion is unlike actinide fission... where neutrons are the mediator.. so simple moderators won't work..

    as others have pointed out.. heat removal is a major problem and neutron release may only be a sign of fusion gone wrong.