The perpetual “is LENR even real” argument thread.

  • "LENR" no - the evidence as I have seen it includes things other than nuclear reactions as possible cause.

    Okay, tell us what can cause deuterium to transmute into helium producing 24 MeV per helium atom? Tell us EXACTLY what "things other than nuclear reactions" can cause this.


    Also, what things other than nuclear reactions can generate tritium? Or 10,000 eV per atom with no chemical changes?


    You made the claim here. Please back it up with factual evidence from experiments. Your saying "you might have FPHE heat without tritium or helium" is not evidence. It is not true as far as anyone knows. It is counterfactual, or hypothetical. We might have little green winged unicorns invading Atlanta and stabbing people to death with their horns, but we don't. I don't see them, anyway. If they show up, I will let you know.

  • What I meant was that IF we had said experiment THEN a Theory would be required.

    Perhaps this means that if an easy experiment appears, then it will be time for someone to develop a theory. It will be required. But we don't need one now.


    If that is what you mean, I still don't understand. Why is a theory needed with an easy experiment but not a difficult one? Do you find difficult experiments less compelling, and therefore you dismiss them, and you see no reason to explain them? When 180 labs replicate a difficult experiment, that makes it real. It is important. If it can be made practical it will end the energy crisis and global warming. A theory might help make it easier, or more repeatable, so a theory is just as important for difficult effect as an easy one.


    Perhaps you mean that because you say: "you might have FPHE heat without tritium or helium" that is magically true. We don't need a theory because abracadabra you made the evidence vanish. No evidence, no theory needed. That's Huizenga's approach: "As long as I say this is a mistake we can dismiss it. I don't need to give a reason or show an error." This is magical incantation. "When I say X, that makes X true." "Things other than a nuclear reaction can transmute deuterium into helium."


    That's not how science works.

  • Gregory Byron Goble


    I disagree with some of the things that you say here; like your characterisation of Google's work, for instance. But I would never demand you were banned. Nor would I propose to banish you to a single thread. You have as much right to be here as any of us. As does Huxley.


    If the mods feel differently, that's for them, not us.

  • Easy yes. Definite results, yes. "No theoretical basis" remains to be seen. "LENR" no - the evidence as I have seen it includes things other than nuclear reactions as possible cause.

    Then why are you even on this forum and commenting on everything? Are you here on a mission to show us all that we are wrong?! What is it that you do in daily life (work, research, study, business) to bring you here on this forum and react to pretty much every post anyone makes? Are we all this stupid in your eyes?

  • What is it that you do in daily life (work, research, study, business) to bring you here on this forum and react to pretty much every post anyone makes?

    THH is a "Verified User", which means we know who he is, and his qualifications. He teaches at one of the world's Top 6 Universities.

  • Well, curious minds still want to know.

    Our Verified Users policy guarantees we on the staff will never reveal the members true identity to the public, unless that person goes by their real name anyway...such as JR, or you. Anyone here can become a VU by contacting anyone on the staff. We will take it from there.

  • Edo , to say that this thread lost focus would be an understatement by a large factor.


    Let’s be happy that we have discussed in this thread several of the presentations from ICCF24 and at least THHuxleynew has acknowledged that some of these results may be interesting after all, only if any of the outlandish errors he imagined that the experimenters have made, and that in his opinion could explain the results, is not proven. That, in my book, is as close as we will get from him to acknowledge he was impressed.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • It is entirely possible that an easyish cold fusion experiment will be discovered by trial and error. In fact, the LEC appears to be just that. If it is more widely replicated it will definitely be an easy experiment with no theoretical basis.

    Then take a closer look at a theoretically substantiated experiment #63 (on paper) and maybe you will move from disputes to action.

  • Our Verified Users policy guarantees we on the staff will never reveal the members true identity to the public, unless that person goes by their real name anyway...such as JR, or you. Anyone here can become a VU by contacting anyone on the staff. We will take it from there.

    I respect the privacy very much and apologize if misunderstood, My questions were for the the addressed to do with that what he/she wants. THH however seems only focused on teaching us how wrong it all is, and it is quite frankly demotivating to even go the forum now, because THH is pretty much all I see and on top of that I read lots of comments from THH that are simply infuriating. Several others have pointed some things out already and I have been mostly ignoring it, but that is becoming very difficult now. Ill call it the THH forum where CF/LENR/SSM/CMNS are simply a fringe impossibility and QM with the Copenhagen is true and on top of that the experimenters are stupid and never thought of contamination etc etc etc. It is insulting if one thinks about it...

    So my question is in fact to THH, What is your interest in LENR and do you even consider this possible? If yes, then please be constructive in figuring out how and why this works instead of all the negativity and the arrogance to be quite frank.

  • Stop to dream again, TTH team are payed to break everything here.

    No chance of reasoning so. His only reason is bashing.

    Also don't count on Curbina anymore, he have been to woodstock probably, loves small flowers no chance for reason with this eclessiastic .


    I respect the privacy very much and apologize if misunderstood, My questions were for the the addressed to do with that what he/she wants. THH however seems only focused on teaching us how wrong it all is, and it is quite frankly demotivating to even go the forum now, because THH is pretty much all I see and on top of that I read lots of comments from THH that are simply infuriating. Several others have pointed some things out already and I have been mostly ignoring it, but that is becoming very difficult now. Ill call it the THH forum where CF/LENR/SSM/CMNS are simply a fringe impossibility and QM with the Copenhagen is true and on top of that the experimenters are stupid and never thought of contamination etc etc etc. It is insulting if one thinks about it...

    So my question is in fact to THH, What is your interest in LENR and do you even consider this possible? If yes, then please be constructive in figuring out how and why this works instead of all the negativity and the arrogance to be quite frank.

  • THH agrees with Huizenga that all results are mistakes, no matter how many people replicated them. Even tritium at 50 times background or heat at 100 W for weeks are mistakes.

    Jed - I would advise you to be more precise and generalise less.


    For example - I do not think the LEC results are a mistake.


    If however you think tritium 50X background necessarily implies fusion then you are misguided: there are possibilities (given background is so very low, and the mass ratio between tritium and hydrogen high) that could provide that. Not high likelihood possibilities - but ones that need investigating.


    Or, if you have your easy experiment that delivers X50 tritium you just repeat it with non-LENR parties conducting and different everything - you have your proof of LENR. I bet a the moment NASA would be happy to do that.


    The difference between Jed and I is that I allow uncertainty - and know that experiments are messy - not all are equal - and working out the individual messiness is needed whenever you have unexpected results.


    THH


    Let us bet on this:


    If the ICCF24 results proof replicable and non-explainable except by nuclear reactions - you are proven right. If they turn out to be non-replicable, or replicable but with some mundane cause like electrolytic isotopic concentration (not saying that works, it is just an example) - then I win. Give it a year of two and we can revisit this to see who is correct.


    If you are right on this one we will all have proven LENR - which will be a great thing even if at not-useful levels. If not - I predict most people here will make excuses and move onto the next thing.


    I an choosing this because Jed has a fair chance of winning (unlike F&P boil-off!).

  • I respect the privacy very much and apologize if misunderstood, My questions were for the the addressed to do with that what he/she wants. THH however seems only focused on teaching us how wrong it all is, and it is quite frankly demotivating to even go the forum now, because THH is pretty much all I see and on top of that I read lots of comments from THH that are simply infuriating. Several others have pointed some things out already and I have been mostly ignoring it, but that is becoming very difficult now.

    If the mods ask me I will happily leave here. I'd hope that people here are actually intersted in the science - not just an online fan club. I know some are. But, I can see that if this is a fan club we will want one-sided and positive posts only so as not to demotivate people. Or perhaps a token skeptic who is making points so flaky they can easily be demolished.


    I am still astonished that having said I think type 2 LENR is plausible I am still viewed as somehow negative! Extraordinary - and the boosterism exhibited here reminds me of China, or North Korea - or Russia - where the only comment that is acceptable is positive.


    Anyway - this site is free to do what it likes and if most people would rather I stop I will stop - it seems fair. the mods can maybe organise a vote or something. Democracy is a great thing!

  • If the mods ask me I will happily leave here. I'd hope that people here are actually intersted in the science - not just an online fan club. I know some are. But, I can see that if this is a fan club we will want one-sided and positive posts only so as not to demotivate people. Or perhaps a token skeptic who is making points so flaky they can easily be demolished.


    I am still astonished that having said I think type 2 LENR is plausible I am still viewed as somehow negative! Extraordinary - and the boosterism exhibited here reminds me of China, or North Korea - or Russia - where the only comment that is acceptable is positive.


    Anyway - this site is free to do what it likes and if most people would rather I stop I will stop - it seems fair. the mods can maybe organise a vote or something. Democracy is a great thing!

    Your typology is not shared by anyone and I never asked you to leave, I am trying to figure out what position you have in this huge topic and to see more constructive responses instead of what you do again, making drama, and insinuating the forum is like (gasp) the so called less free countries on earth, as if the west is free at the moment, give me a break. Saying it is a fan club if someone pushed back a little. So lets agree to stick to the topic.


    here is a science topic to look at, freshly posted to accommodate. please do comment there on the topic i raised in all sincerity. I think it point to the fact that nuclear electrons are a real thing and not the magically appearing / disappearing electrons in the standard model with the aid of an even more mysterious positron.


    Edo
  • Cydonia - stop trolling and playing games with insults the mods here will tell you are false. It shows your poor character - as displayed online here.

    Already awake?

    Have a coffee because your day is still going to be a long time Daaarling.

    Apparently, I vexed you, don't worry daddy Curbina will come very quickly to save his favorite twisted mind.

  • THH however seems only focused on teaching us how wrong it all is, and it is quite frankly demotivating to even go the forum now, because THH is pretty much all I see and on top of that I read lots of comments from THH that are simply infuriating.

    I actually enjoy showing him how wrong he is at times - though he seldom if ever acknowledges that. THH is a confirmed member of the 'I'm right so you must be wrong' school of discussion, but he has a place here, as you do if, like THH, you remember to be kind.