Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

  • Problem is, Rossi has no huge pot of money other than funds that he conned, when that is gone , or forced to be clawed back, he is out of "business" (and if he is convicted of fraud, now or later, he will owe multiples of any damages and possibly attorney fees). Unless of course you wish to "donate" your life-savings and retirement to the "Rossi Cause"; have you done so, if not, why, you all believe it is a sure thing and thus would make $$bazillions$$, and I'm sure that Rossi would take your investment money. Have you written him a check, you should put your money where your mouth is.


    You and your like are faced with a whack-a-mole situation. Your interaction with Rossi is not your only problem. I support open source LENR development. There will be more LENR developers than you can shake a stick at. What are you going to do with R. Mills and the SunCell? The LENR reaction is happening in Safire. You just can't fight mother nature.

  • You and your like are faced with a whack-a-mole situation. Your interaction with Rossi is not your only problem. I support open source LENR development. There will be more LENR developers than you can shake a stick at. What are you going to do with R. Mills and the SunCell? The LENR reaction is happening in Safire. You just can't fight mother nature.

    It's a simple question, have you, or any of the other Rossi disciples, donated/"invested" one penny toward "the Cause" (directly to a Rossi, or through an investment fund), or asked Rossi if you might invest in his greatest invention of the century??? If not, seems rather hypocritical (at best).

  • It's a simple question, have you, or any of the other Rossi disciples, donated/"invested" one penny toward "the Cause" (directly to a Rossi, or through an investment fund), or asked Rossi if you might invest in his greatest invention of the century??? If not, seems rather hypocritical (at best).


    I have interested myself since Rossi appeared on the LENR stage to move his technology into open source for scientific research. The next phase is to restrict both Rossi and IH LENR technology under government regulation as a harmful sub atomic particle source.

  • I remain deeply suspicious of IH for a variety of reasons, e.g. their excessive use of shell companies, badly written contract, stringing Rossi along for one year, strange 'anti-scientific' comments by their consultants regarding COP and conservation of energy, excessive secrecy, history of 'shady' brownfield deals, and attempts to patent and raise funds for technology (which they claim they don't believe in) behind Rossi's back.


    ...Also the general obnoxiousness of their PR efforts

  • You and your like are faced with a whack-a-mole situation. Your interaction with Rossi is not your only problem. I support open source LENR development. There will be more LENR developers than you can shake a stick at. What are you going to do with R. Mills and the SunCell? The LENR reaction is happening in Safire. You just can't fight mother nature.


    This is such a grossly inaccurate and confused perspective, but I believe it clearly indicates the 'tribal' thinking that leads to the irrational and ultimately detrimental (to LENR research) support for Rossi.


    I'm speaking for myself, but I can bet that this applies to the vast majority, if not all of the Rossi detractors here:


    1) Regarding Rossi specifically, I would be delighted if he really had a working process. Who wouldn't be? It would create unimaginable increased wealth, prosperity, and increased quality of life for all of humanity.


    2) Regarding other LENR research efforts for commercially viable over-unity energy production (Mills, Suhas, MFPF, etc.). Ditto. If the LENR 'cat' is out of the bag and cannot be stopped, then hallelujah! Great benefits to society are in store.


    3) Unfortunately, Rossi is an admitted scammer. The overwhelming evidence is that his 'stuff' is fake.


    4) Regarding other researchers, if there is any hope for some benefit to humanity, it will require quality, verifiable, and repeatable studies (not crappy, unverifiable, scamming demonstrations like what Rossi has provided).


    Can you Rossi supporters not see A) how tribal and superficial your Rossi cheerleading efforts are and B) how counterproductive to the field of LENR research it is to defend the extraordinary malpractice of Rossi?


    This notion that somehow Rossi detractors desire to 'whack LENR moles' demonstrates a profound mischaracterization and misunderstanding of the motives for pointing out the clear evidence of Rossi's deceit.


    I'd ask Rossi's supporters to try to imagine (for only a brief minute) that Rossi has scammed the field from the very beginning. Now, with that hypothetical fact that you are imagining (if only for a minute), I'd ask you to think about the implications to the LENR field given that this is true (if only hypothetically and for a minute). Do you see the damage?


    OK, your minute is up. Thanks for your understanding.


    The evidence that Rossi has been scamming all along, from Petroldragon, to Thermo-electric devices, to all things E-Cat, Doral, and to Quark-X is overwhelming, in my opinion.


    If you can grasp this, perhaps you could imagine that exposing Rossi's behaviors and 'evidence' for what they really are is a helpful step, overall, in exploring and advancing LENR research (albeit painful as it might seem)

  • axil if I'm correct the Rossi Gullstrom paper mentions the radiating surface 1cm2.


    I understand the quark has gone through some evolutions but I think the latest dimensions I heard of were 0.6 cm diameter by 2cm length. This would have a tube surface area of about 3.7cm2. (+ .56 cm2 or so if we include the surface area of the end caps)


    I think only part of the device is radiating heat.


    Could it be the whole tube is sapphire glass as has been suggested by some here but is capped or contains a 1 cm2 BB radiating surface and it's only this 1cm2 surface that gets to 2700 degC?


    This way perhaps we still would have BB radiation from the thermal surface and the remainder of the device may be transparent to the optical component through the sapphire?


    I suppose the BB radiating surface would need interesting properties. I suppose some metals could fit but some times wonder if it could be Boron Nitride or Carbon or Or Boron Carbide. They have interesting thermal properties but very different complementary electrical ones.


    The SWNT and MWNT Nano tube variants are also very interesting in their sorbant properties with gases such as Hydrogen especially when doped or otherwise treated. although I'm not sure if they share some of the possibly useful properties of metal Hydrides or bi metal Hydrides or not. NT's can also contain nanowires of transition metals but I guess that's another story.


    Edit: Ahh my apologies.... I just realized I miss posted this in this thread. It a bit off topic here. Feel free to move it to a more appropriate one.


  • I think I understand your 'indignation' and conviction that Rossi is a scammer. However, while I'm open to this possibility, I do not agree with you that the overwhelming evidence is that this is true and that his 'stuff' is fake. There is too much evidence on the other side (Focardi, Piantelli, Brillouin, tests by IH, earlier tests by Levi, recent reports of positive results by me356, Parkhomov, Suhas and others).


    More importantly, even if Rossi is a scammer, I absolutely do not think that he has harmed LENR research in the least. In fact, LENR research was 'dead' when he came along and despite the fact that it is now 28 years since Pons & Fleischmann's announcement we still do not have commercial level reproducible LENR. If anything, I think that Rossi has significantly revived interest in LENR, and his work has led to the re-invigoration of LENR research.

  • I think I understand your 'indignation' and conviction that Rossi is a scammer. However, while I'm open to this possibility, I do not agree with you that the overwhelming evidence is that this is true and that his 'stuff' is fake. There is too much evidence on the other side (Focardi, Piantelli, Brillouin, tests by IH, earlier tests by Levi, recent reports of positive results by me356, Parkhomov, Suhas and others).


    More importantly, even if Rossi is a scammer, I absolutely do not think that he has harmed LENR research in the least. In fact, LENR research was 'dead' when he came along and despite the fact that it is now 28 years since Pons & Fleischmann's announcement we still do not have commercial level reproducible LENR. If anything, I think that Rossi has significantly revived interest in LENR, and his work has led to the re-invigoration of LENR research.


    Well, we can agree to disagree on the harm Rossi has done to the credibility of LENR.


    But conversely, if Rossi's pulls a rabbit out his hat and actually produces something useful, then what harm exists critcizing Rossi's research malpractice and undisputed evidence of intentional deception entered into a US Federal court in discussions on a fringe blog?


    In any case, I've seen a tendency in Rossi supporters to excuse outrageously bad behavior because they think doing so somehow helps the field as a whole. To the contrary, I think supporting Rossi's bad behavior provides legitimate basis for critique of such misguided support.


    Regarding Axil's post, he wrongly assumes that legitimate, evidence-based critique of Rossi must imply an 'anti-LENR' perspective generally.


    I think this shallow notion is common to other Rossi supporters here as well, and is counterproductive: the inability of Axil and others sharing his perspective to appropriately address evidence and distinguish the quality of evidence from various LENR contributors, harms the credibility of the field generally.

  • (Focardi, Piantelli, Brillouin, tests by IH, earlier tests by Levi, recent reports of positive results by me356, Parkhomov, Suhas and others).

    Piantelli would be incensed to hear that his experiments lend support to Rossi. I think they have nothing to do with Rossi.


    The tests by I.H. produced no heat. I.H. discovered that an empty cell produced apparent 9 times input. Obviously that means the calorimetry did not work.


    Levi's earlier test is the only real evidence in favor of Rossi. The Lugano test was faulty and there is no evidence it produced excess heat. It was also fraudulently presented because it turns out Rossi was there the whole time and he was in charge. That's what I have heard lately. I do not know the details.


    me356 and Parkhomov have not been confirmed. Parkhomov is sloppy. I do not know who Suhas is. The others I have heard of are sloppy and wrong.


    Rossi's own 1-year test was an outrageous farce that produced no hint of excess heat.


    In short, there is practically no evidence that Rossi's claims are true. Only Levi's first test.

  • @Jed,


    You better hope the rest are sloppy and wrong. Because I'm afraid reputations will be damaged otherwise, including that of IH.


    See, your perspective aligns with Axil's in the same mischaracterizations and misunderstandings.


    Why would anyone who wants progress and discovery 'hope the rest are sloppy and wrong'. That is silly and absurd.


    As a researcher, what pisses me off is sloppy researchers (or even worse, intentionally deceptive researchers). It gives research a bad name.


    What any credible researcher wants is good research with correct conclusions (whatever they may be), and from whomever.


    Negative findings are incredibly valuable (and vastly under-reported and unrecognized, unfortunately, in today's environment).


    The reputations of people earnestly pursuing understanding and progress will not be harmed in the long run if LENR is actually demonstrated by any of these parties (including Rossi). Maybe you could argue IH's would. But who cares? They aren't investigators, they are wealthy VC's. They'll be wealthy no matter what happens.


    This notion that somehow critics of Rossi really want failure just shows you really misunderstand us.


    We want success. And that comes from doing good research, not 'sloppy and wrong' research.


    Unfortunately for us all, Rossi has a long legacy of the latter.

  • If Rossi eventually succeeds in a useful device it will not be IH that will have a bad legacy, it will Rossi. He has had five year+ to do good reliable measurements and use under contract to transfer the technology to others but he could not.


    Even now, if he had what he claims, he should be able to quickly make a good reliable modestly sized system that could withstand scrutiny but instead he allegedly pulls out critical material, bars others from examining the systems, removes instruments others look to for information, and destroys parts. It is legacy that will be in jeopardy.


    He claims caring for children with cancer, but how many children in the world are suffering from lack of a simple power system to supply clean water or to keep them from freezing on a cold winter night. If he has what he claims and cares as he claims he would do what is good for others not just try to enrich himself. .

  • This notion that somehow critics of Rossi really want failure just shows you really misunderstand us.


    We want success. And that comes from doing good research, not 'sloppy and wrong' research


    @sig,


    I would exclude you, because I think you are sincere. I've been around for awhile. I know the play book. "Oh, we would be the first to be so very happy and relieved if LENR is true"--and then go about discrediting and attacking everything and anything related to LENR, attempting to obstruct and block funding, assassinating the character of researchers, trying to obfuscate and confuse the issues. And for LENR+, the effect is amplified by at least an order of magnitude. Insincere skepticism is easy to spot. Many people have reputations on the line with the Rossi affair. And they intend to protect them, possibly at very high costs--especially those with the means to do so.

  • If Rossi eventually succeeds in a useful device it will not be IH that will have a bad legacy, it will Rossi. He has had five year+ to do good reliable measurements and use under contract to transfer the technology to others but he could not.


    Even now, if he had what he claims, he should be able to quickly make a good reliable modestly sized system that could withstand scrutiny but instead he allegedly pulls out critical material, bars others from examining the systems, removes instruments others look to for information, and destroys parts. It is legacy that will be in jeopardy.


    He claims caring for children with cancer, but how many children in the world are suffering from lack of a simple power system to supply clean water or to keep them from freezing on a cold winter night. If he has what he claims and cares as he claims he would do what is good for others not just try to enrich himself. .

    This is interesting. It seems that a lot of Rossi detractors are now using the word "if" when referring to the possibility that he may have something after all. The significance is that up until now they seemed to all be certain beyond a doubt that he has nothing and the whole thing was just a bald faced scam. Could it be they have decided to hedge their bets in light of recent legal developments? It seems apparent now from the legal disclosures that at least some evaluation of the performance of the 1MW ECat will happen during the trial, unlike other recent predictions that it would be only about the contract and its validation. We may find out yet if this thing really produced or not.

  • So Rossi gets $11.5M for the most important technological breakthrough in decades then goes and buys condos, Cadillacs, imaginary heat exchangers, possible vacations to Russia, possible visiting researcher funds to Oops-salla, pinball source code development software at the prestigious and historic University of Bologna and $2 to $3M worth of litigation with the money. He uses the balance for development of the be- all / end-all breakthroughs of the next century all without monetizing the breakthrough of this century.

    Dewey you are in a complete mental coldfusion ( :) ) state. Rossi have been never to Russia and probably has no interest to go there, Rossi has nothing to do with Pinball, Fabiani is the founder and CEO of the company that do that and if you look at FB you will see that Fabiani's company is developing also an Arcade emulator.

    Rossi is not founding Uppsala University other companies do and is not a mystery which.......

    Are you trying to spread the usual disinformation ?

  • We want success. And that comes from doing good research, not 'sloppy and wrong' research.


    Unfortunately for us all, Rossi has a long legacy of the latter.

    Who you refer with "we" ? Probably IH & co. even if you try to distinguish your position from them.

    Is quite interesting that you forget all the research that has been done on Ni H + X systems by many international and respected researchers .

    Are Focardi, Piantelli, Hoistad, Parchomov just to cite few, all sloppy ? Are you so sure that you are so superior to them ? That all those institutions are blind and wrong ?

  • @sig,


    I would exclude you, because I think you are sincere. I've been around for awhile. I know the play book. "Oh, we would be the first to be so very happy and relieved if LENR is true"--and then go about discrediting and attacking everything and anything related to LENR Rossi, attempting to obstruct and block funding to Rossi, assassinating the character of researchers Rossi, trying to obfuscate and confuse the issues provide evidence. And for LENR+, the effect is amplified by at least an order of magnitude. Insincere skepticism is easy to spot. Many people NOBODY except Rossi and Wong have reputations on the line with the Rossi affair. And they intend to protect them, possibly at very high costs--especially those with the means to do so.


    Fixed it for you

  • Those silly universities and corporations spending all that money on labs, lab equipment, instrumentation, analytical equipment, measurement equipment, engineers and technicians, etc. to do research and development, when all you need is the following bag of junk tools and rolls of adhesive-backed rubber tape (not shown: random plumbing pipe and fittings, lots of foil insulation, strip-heaters, and cheap meters (all available from your local Home Depot)), and some poor plumbing skills (Rossi could never get a job as a plumber). If I were trying to scam someone, I'd at least make my fake apparatus look halfway professional and credible.

  • My understanding that those tools were from AR's plumber. Not sure he has ever done much work to turn a wrench himself. The pre-1MW show was better. They had some more sophisticated looking boxes (again not sure AR turned a wrench or screw driver anywhere). But there were also pics with Fabiani with the cheapest Chinese components you can get (e.g., $2 current sensor). I recognized it since I had used some in past replication attempts.


  • She declined to 'clarify'. Not a good sign for Rossi's lawyers.


    The questions were mostly about matters clarified in the order on expert witnesses (and clarified there mostly against Rossi).


    I don't know if all US civil cases have parties appealing so much, but this one seems to be pretty full of money for lawyers. It is a shame that with such an enormous volume of evidence the basic twistiness of the arguments on Rossi's side can be missed. You actually have to pay attention to the arguments and follow them to source. Abd does this, a bit, and the results are revelatory, but I can't say Altonaga wants to do this when analysing the MSJs. Perhaps she feels that twistiness should be assessed by a Jury and once facts can be twisted we are in disputed fact territory and so MSJs must be denied.

  • Rossele - you wouldn't believe the things that we know. I see that you only chose to address a couple of the Fabiani related adventures that you funded but while we have your attention we'd like to know something. Why did you go and buy 10+ condos in Miami with IH money when you could have reinvested in the greatest invention since powdered sugar and changed the planet? Now you want us to believe that the ecat wasn't good enough and that you needed to iterate and commercialize with the quackx? (with a 1MW quackx in the mix nonetheless - that makes me howl with laughter every time you mention it)


    Packing your bags for your next batch of dupes yet?

  • Quote

    While I agree with your assessment of all things Rossi, I still would like to know how a bunch of smart lawyer type investment bankers like you got conned into giving Rossi anything?

    What the hell were you thinking?


    Yes interesting question, how have the people been tricked (so easy) by this false "genius"? (The hoax was easy to reveal)

    Gullible people, ignorance or what?

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Henry ().