Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • @WCG: What is honest about your posts? If you see tricks - we can't see - , then please tell us! We are eager to learn...


    Wyttenbach , sorry, maybe the word "trick" is not well chosen. What i meant is that these firms have a comparable strategy: creating heat / energy from not well understood (LEN) reactions.


    Cheers,


    JB

  • I might put BLP in a similar category to Leonardo. I would put Brillouin in a different category. Brillouin haven't yet made big claims and they do not have a history of controversy. None of this is to say that Brillouin have anything, although I'll be interested to see where they go.

  • Endless posts, endless comma humping and praising each other on how smart the skeptics all are, but nobody recognized the power of a street fighter like Rossi.


    wcg,


    So you admire Rossi, and will believe in him for the next several years at least, because he is a "street fighter". He is the David vs IH the Goliath. Took on da man. Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving...well, to himself so far.


    Fine, it's your life, but out of curiosity, how much, if any of the documents did you read? in particular, did you read Rossi's 3 depositions? I wonder, as it does not take a "smart skeptic" to conclude Rossi is dishonest, and set out to fool IH with a fake company and fake machine. You could show them to 100 people, and 90-95 would conclude the same. They are that obvious.


    I will admit, it takes some big cahones to bluff IH the way he did...suing, knowing he he had nothing and discovery would reveal his weak hand. The traits of a good gambler, but that is not the type person I admire. Definitely not someone to faithfully believe in. In fact, to me, after reading every document, he looks like an idiot to have done what he did. But that's me.


  • Shane D. ,


    My "admiration" of Rossi is a bit more nuanced.


    In my opinion nobody is completely honest and nobody in completely dishonest. In American culture it is almost custom to create a binary situation with villains and heroes. "American heroes" are void from anything bad and villains are pure evil. People feel offended if a labeled villain (Hitler, Bin Laden, etc.) are associated with something positive. And sometimes even more offended if labeled heroes are associated with negative behaviour. Was Gandhi a pedophile?


    In my world the good and bad in a person cannot be summed. There is something to be learned from everybody and one disadvantages itself tremendously if one ignores that fact.


    As the 90-95 people from a 100 I have also concluded that Rossi sometimes crossed the line of good manners. However, in my opinion he needed to do so to survive. And it is exactly the very unique skillset of ferocious survival instinct paired with an unmeasurable drive to succeed that make the man so special. THerefore i do not follow the "sheeple" just now. I want to see more of Andrea Rossi before i dismiss him as a fraud and a conman.


    Cheers,


    JB

  • ...I want to see more of Andrea Rossi ...


    This is probably what 90...95 from 100 are waiting for since Rossi entered the LENR scene...me too. All what I was able to conclude and have learned so far is that this man will never let anybody outside of his inner circle crew allow to have a closer look into his technology and secret sauce (doubt if there is one at all in his reactors). And: no product despite so may years with promises...he dropped his ECAT instead selling and making millions for his latest baby....same will happen with his new Quark Cat, I am sure. No other signs on the horizon.

  • WCG,


    I think nearly everyone here who ever had hope that Leonardo would deliver something at some point are willing to make similar allowances to you in not dividing the world into villains and good people. Coming on to this story fresh, it is easy to imagine that despite the flamboyance or any character flaws Rossi nonetheless has something and is simply creating unnecessary difficulties for himself or, less likely, simply fending off rapacious business partners. But will it modify your analysis if I go through the Vortex archives and find nearly identical sentiments to the ones you expressed above by similarly hopeful people in 2012?


    I think the new things that were not a consideration before are the millions of dollars that changed hands, the Doral show, the lawsuit, and the statements made under oath around the Doral show. These in my view push the situation into a different category.

  • This thread reminds me of the poem:


    Last night I saw upon the stair

    A little man who wasn't there.

    He wasn't there again today,

    Oh how I wish he'd go away.


    Rossi has been successful in demonstrating his technology well enough to attract investment. Venture capitalists are are very suspicious bunch and are not easy to fool.

    He is not interested by what you think and rightly forecasts he will not be believed before viable commercial nits are on sale.

    Nobody here knows enough to be sure of the outcome although some claim great certainty.

    Maybe this rubbish is entertaining to some, but it would be better to wait and see what actually happens. Some new form of energy production is required and like it or not Rossi is still a leading contender.

  • Ay, chihuahua...it's going to be a long 3-4 years. :) Like going back to 2011 and starting all over, but this time knowing how it will end. Only difference is a name: 1MW then, QX now.


    Still do not understand why the 1MW is obsolete now.

  • When you say "he was cleared by all the charges", I assume you are talking about the IH suit. First let me make a retraction; since the counter-suit was civil, and not criminal, I will cut him a break and change "criminal" to "fraudulent" when referring to him. I am not sure after that what you are implying. A settlement is not a judgement of guilt or innocence, it is just a settlement.

    I think Ele was referring to Rossi's past litigation. Many years ago Rossi was unjustly accused and subsequently acquitted of crimes he had not committed.

  • That does not do LENR, as a serious proposition, any good, though since only IH takes LENR seriously at the moment maybe it does not much harm.

    This is really absurd ...... IH people aren't paladins who believe in LENRs and work hard to convince the world about their worth. In fact, as soon as it was useful to do so, IH challenged Rossi's technology, arguing that it could not work because it was against the laws of physics. It does not seem to me the best way to take LENR seriously!

  • We in the Peanut Gallery were winning for a long time (almost a year), because we got real cold hard evidence (actual emails, handwritten notes, sworn depositions, etc.) at zero cost, except postage (thanks Eric!) and handling (all our time analyzing and pontificating).

    We have not seen all the evidence but only the ones we have been allowed to. Probably there are still so many things that we did not see in the Peanut Gallery, so this year has provided us just with something about which we can speculate.

  • Ay, chihuahua...it's going to be a long 3-4 years. :) Like going back to 2011 and starting all over, but this time knowing how it will end. Only difference is a name: 1MW then, QX now.


    Still do not understand why the 1MW is obsolete now.


    No - nor has anyone else a coherent explanation. I don't expect any explanation from any of Rossi's "clients" who he says now prefer to wait for the Quackex; simply because no such people exist. IIRC, he admitted in deposition that he had no clients or customers for the ecat.


    It would be interesting to see, from a Rossi supporter, some cogent reason why anyone who may have had a need for 1MW of cheap heat would now prefer to wait for a barrel of 50,000 20 watt Quackexes

  • As a non-scientist, this is why I do not believe Rossi has anything and I think it sums up the beliefs of the majority of non-scientists who investigate Rossi.


    1) In 2011, Rossi started taking preorders for the 1 me e-cat and promised delivery in 2011.

    Normal business people do not take preorders until they are in the final phase of engineering and have at least mastered the process with a medium scale product.

    2) Rossi still to this date has not delivered any public products for commercial or private usage.

    3) Rossi claims that he has achieved a 350 day reliability of 1mw with a cop of 80 plus.

    4) Rossi is now totally dropping this proven product which could net him trillions of dollars (billions if he takes the easy way out and sells working knowledge to company in exchange for a 10% stake) in favor of a device that produces a fraction of 1% the power and is still in the laboratory testing phase.


    Now I hope Rossi proves me wrong but as my grandfather said "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably...".

  • Quote

    Many years ago Rossi was unjustly accused and subsequently acquitted of crimes he had not committed.

    That's Rossisays and Rossifiction. Rossi was not convicted of nearly enough of the scams he perpetrated on an Italian province, on the Italian government, and on the US DOD/CERL. I want to see more of Rossi... in prison.


    Quote

    4) Rossi is now totally dropping this proven product which could net him trillions of dollars (billions if he takes the easy way out and sells working knowledge to company in exchange for a 10% stake) in favor of a device that produces a fraction of 1% the power and is still in the laboratory testing phase.

    But just think, WMartin, only 50,000 of Rossi's new QuarkX's will do the same thing as the allegedly ready to sell megawatt plant. If he can connect them together somehow which I am sure is trivial. And if he can control their 2600 degree C temperature which for Rossi's genius can't be difficult. So of course it makes sense. He's giving up trillions to make quadrillions! Anyone would do the same.


    Quote

    We have not seen all the evidence but only the ones we have been allowed to. Probably there are still so many things that we did not see in the Peanut Gallery, so this year has provided us just with something about which we can speculate.

    That's exactly how it is with my patent-pending pink invisible flying unicorns (PIFU's). Nobody has seen those because they are shy... and invisible. Sort of like Rossi's QuarkX and Rossi's customers and his robotic factories.

  • Just when you think all of the uber skeptics would lose all interest in Rossi and move on for good, you're all still here! Could it be that you have a little nagging feeling that just maybe, just perhaps--that due to IH settling with Rossi--he has something?

  • This is really absurd ...... IH people aren't paladins who believe in LENRs and work hard to convince the world about their worth. In fact, as soon as it was useful to do so, IH challenged Rossi's technology, arguing that it could not work because it was against the laws of physics. It does not seem to me the best way to take LENR seriously!

    SSC - you are confusing a lawyers MSJ with an IH PR. The two are not the same. IH, as you well know, is investing in LENR research.