MIZUNO REPLICATION AND MATERIALS ONLY

  • Another 42 pieces of mesh 25x20 cms are being despatched from the manufacturer tomorrow. They should be with me about 25th July. Around 30 of these will be available to interested replicators.

    Alan,


    Please put me down for one set of three meshes.


    Jeff

  • Looks like a very thorough replication, although with some thermocouple trouble-maybe only Mizuno's meshes work? Disappointing results. Maybe some internal oxidation of the stainless steel is required to form ultra dense deuterium as a precursor to fusion reactions. Could try adding some KFeO2 catalyst maybe. Lets see what happens next over longer timescales.


    I agree with the "see what happens over longer timescales" and also different replications.


    I'd only point out the possibility that Mizuno's results were in fact a mistake, which stays on the table, and will become stronger if repeated replications give negative results.


    One of the unsatisfactory aspects of LENR (in its current state) something that influences external observers and skeptics, is this.


    Because no-one knows how to trigger this elusive effect, no amount of negative replications will disprove a specific result.


    We could get 20 replications of Mizuno, with negative results, and some would still think it likely that the Mizuno magic did in fact exist in his R19, R20 reactors, but has proven difficult to replicate.


    20 replications, with 1 or 2 showing strong positive results - but themselves unreplicable - and many here would be convinced this was real LENR.


    Whereas skeptics like me would take that as much more likely explained by mistakes / errors in Mizuno's work.


    The aspects of LENR that make skeptics profoundly skeptical:

    • Lack of controllability (makes it look like error)
    • Lack of radioactive products (makes it look like error)
    • Lack of predictive theory (makes it look like error)


    Against which Ed Storms is absolutely right that if there is a predictive theory this is profoundly valuable. I'm still hoping to get some predictions from his reasonable deduction that vacancies in metal induce some special H or D state that enables special fusion.


    Perhaps though the big take home is this. Until some LENR result is tolerably replicable, so that its existence can be then systematically tested against variants of the original, no progress can be made. If LENR positives are sporadic with not even a statistical bound on positives (1 in 10, or whatever) then no theory can be ruled out, because there is no way to determine what is real LENR and what is experimental mistake.


    Luckily google are willing to replicate, with money and skills, absolutely any LENR experiment. The issue for people here is whether there is one that exhibits enough replicability to be distinguishable from error.


    [ I subtitled this post: how not to get likes on LENR forum :) ]

  • JedRothwell , Have you watched the Deneum analogue experiment video reports? I wonder if you can discuss them with Dr. Mizuno.


    Deneum seems committed to do a thorough follow up but they seem to have some differences that might be enough to explain their initial lack of success (not to say that they will not see anything with their setup as is if they pursue the experiments for longer periods as they intend).


    I think, just from watching the videos, they are using a different heater, and feeding it with AC, as the main differences. The possible use of silver as soldering material is also mentioned as a potential difference.


    I am asking your opinion as Deneum is completely open to opinions on how to improve their experiment from experienced people, and in this case Dr. Mizuno and you are the most experienced people in the world right now.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • There are a few discrepancies in the Deneum report that should be mentioned: the heater hasn't been described and it's visibly not the same as the Mizuno spec. The video shows them making the feed-through joints with gas torches and what appears to be silver solder. I suppose that could be OK if it pumps down and holds vacuum well, but it would add other elements into the cell that were not in the Mizuno R20. And the temperature control by a large variac implies they are using AC heater power. Also, the Mizuno R20 paper specified 100-300 Pa for the D2 pressure, and made it quite clear that attempting to load the Ni mesh by using D2 at 6 kPa (60 millibar) or more should be avoided, or the cell will not work. According to the video, they added 30-50 mbar in the final test.


    That said, It's a good first attempt,


    That is a long list of differences. I would not call that a good first attempt. I would say it is a rather different experiment. Introducing things like solder might cause big problems. Did the mass spectrometer confirm there is no significant contamination from that?

  • The aspects of LENR that make skeptics profoundly skeptical:

    Lack of controllability (makes it look like error)
    Lack of radioactive products (makes it look like error)
    Lack of predictive theory (makes it look like error)


    As always, this is bullshit. THH is either ignorant of the literature or he is trying to fool the readers here.


    1. The effect is controllable, and this has been clear since 1990. The McKubre equation shows the control factors, and the two graphs on this page illustrate the two most important ones, loading and current density.


    https://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=263


    2. The effect produces tritium, which is radioactive.


    3. All fundamental new discoveries lack theory. It would not be a new discovery if it had a predictive theory; it would be an incremental improvement. Fundamental discoveries such as the constant speed of light, x-rays, radioactivity and semiconductors are fundamental because they cannot be explained. If you claim this indicates a mistake, you will not accept new facts or new discoveries from experimental science.

  • It would be nice if we had a better photograph of the Mizuno wire. How dark is it exactly? https://www.monotaro.com/p/7075/6017/

    I think that the sheath heaters as shown have been tested at high power by the factory, and that is the resulting oxidation color that you see. I suppose that it probably comes off in the reactor hydrogen flushing-cleaning process. Although it may improve the emissivity, it doesn’t seem like that oxidation should be allowed in the reactor when operating.

  • If the reactor and contents are baked out with a deuterium atmosphere inside then there will be precious little oxigen/oxides inside. Further baking under vacuum (24/48 hours) should complete the cleaning regime.

    So the heater sheath should come out of the reactor nice and shiny, even if it went in sort of brownish, then.


    I wonder then if the emissivity charts for stainless steel at various temperatures were measured in a vacuum or in air? Is the oxide changing the emissivity with increasing temperature or is it a property of the metal alone? Really, a full spectrum emissivity measurement must be done in a vacuum, but many emissivity charts are chock full of poor quality and incomplete information.

  • Hello Everyone,


    Thank you for the kind words, it's been a pleasure to contribute.


    Yeah, actually we reached out to Jed a couple of weeks ago, exchanged a couple of e-mails and then asked a few questions regarding the components, but have never heard back :) I'm sure Jed is pretty busy these days.


    Needless to say we've been doing our best in sticking as close to the original article as possible. Hope you could spot that. However, no one knows how far the list of variables extends for and how crucial for the reaction they are. We do agree that the best solution would be to use the original components provided by Mizuno/Jed which they have proven to produce excess heat. If this is doable, but associated with a significant cost - we would consider to fund it.


    During the next few weeks we will be monitoring this thread and inbound messages to see what the second attempt should look like and then will make it done quickly. Also, as previously mentioned, the reactor will be stopped in a few weeks and the extended Calibration #2 will be done to see if the temperature at 750W was any kind of anomaly. By the way, the reactor is currently at 600W, showing steady 430C (see attachment).


    In the meantime, we wish all participant and especially those who are doing their attempts the very best of luck.

  • DENEUM


    I second Alan Smith on his appreciation for your lab layout, equipment and videos.


    Quote

    Needless to say we've been doing our best in sticking as close to the original article as possible. Hope you could spot that. However, no one knows how far the list of variables extends for and how crucial for the reaction they are. We do agree that the best solution would be to use the original components provided by Mizuno/Jed which they have proven to produce excess heat. If this is doable, but associated with a significant cost - we would consider to fund it


    It has been written here that 12 or more reactors were loaned or sold to unspecified others by Dr. Mizuno. This has always seemed unnecessarily mysterious to me. Maybe someone who has one of these reactors would let you test it for whatever cost is involved in bringing it to you and maybe hanging around for and assisting with the testing. I offered to help with reasonable costs for the same thing if Dr. Storms would do the testing but he wants to approach this issue in other ways.


    JedRothwell : If you know the details about the fate and what is going on with those 12 reactors, maybe you could inform the readers here. Thanks.

  • JedRothwell: If you know the details about the fate and what is going on with those 12 reactors, maybe you could inform the readers here. Thanks.


    As I mentioned, I know about 3 of them. One person reported it works. One is no longer able to test anything. The third had not started yet when I last heard from him a few months ago, after about ten months. I do not know anything about the other reactors.

  • Thank you very much for the update, and the superb video footage. I am most impressed- nice lab too! Do you have a Quad mass spec? I missed seeing one in the video, but that's the danger of only watching with one eye!

    pleased to hear this - thank you.

    No, we do not currently have a mass spectrometer in the lab.

  • I'm afraid it's al gone now. As I have to buy 20 pieces a time right now I can't help you unless a few other people step up.


    Somewhere in this thread, I think I saw photos of your meshes. They looked very different from the meshes Mizuno uses. I have no idea whether this will affect the performance. The holes seem much larger. Was that at 200 mesh (200 holes per inch)?

  • As I mentioned, I know about 3 of them. One person reported it works. One is no longer able to test anything. The third had not started yet when I last heard from him a few months ago, after about ten months. I do not know anything about the other reactors.


    It would seem that Party #2 above would be an ideal candidate to forward his reactor to Deneum as they are unable to perform tests.


    Secondly, the first party who reported it worked... would they publish results and possibly talk to Deneum on their replication process?

    Better yet, would they forward their reactor? What better to have two independent parties confirm the same working reactor!


    It seems there are two very logical and possibly fruitful opportunities where that could advance the field of LENR greatly!


    How would Deneum go about possibly pursuing these two reactors? Since Mizuno has been so public about this, I would not think

    there would be any NDA's or secrets with these?


    Thanks,