Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

  • Two centuries ago, Nicéphore Niepce helped by Louis Daguerre invented the principle of "latent image" which is the basis of photography. Like Fleischmann and Pons, all their lives, Niepce, his brother and Daguerre tried to prove to the incredulous world the reality of their process. The first photographic images were taken under the Empire, in 1816, but Niepce and his brother died in poverty.


    They also invented the first internal combustion engine, still under the reign of Napoleon the first. No one wanted to believe it, even though they had built a working prototype. Their engine, called "pyreolophore" propelled a boat. Even the English did not want to buy it to equip their warships. It was 150 years before ships gave up steam for diesel engines.



    Their laboratory was located not far from where I live, on the Butte de Cormeilles which overlooks Paris. I see this hill when writing for you. Formerly, the Templars had dug a quarry there to extract gypsum. The city's high school bears the name of Louis Daguerre. Here is the statue of Daguerre in the grounds of the church. I photographed it in the last spring.




    A beautiful statue of Daguerre has been erected in Washington, at the corner of 7th Street on Avenue C.



    Photography did not take its industrial development until the 1840s. The world was not ready ...



    But what is the principle of photography? Few remember it today, in the age of the digital image.



    Photons of light or high energy particles create electron / hole pairs in silver iodide crystals. Crystals containing these metastable electron / hole pairs are more reactive than other crystals, and they react faster with the reducing agent. (Mercury vapor in the first Daguerreotype process, but atomic hydrogen also makes an excellent reducing agent.)



    The pressure causes electric charges to appear by piezoelectric effect, and these charges create a latent image, which will be reduced by the developing agent (hydroquinone derivatives in the usual way, but vitamin C is also suitable)


    The interaction between gelatin proteins and halide crystals is very important, and still poorly understood.


    The factory that made gelatin for all the photographic film manufacturers in the world was in Saint-Denis, a blue collar town north of Paris where I was born. In summer, this factory spread a terrible smell in the city.



    It was a cousin of Nicéphore Niepce, called Niepce de Saint-Victor, who discovered the action of radioactivity on photographic film. He published an article in the Comptes-Rendus de l'Académie des Sciences, (french PNAS) but his article was forgotten, because he was a photographer, and not a scientist, and it was Becquerel who rediscovered the radio-activity, many years after. (The word "radioactivity" was coined by Marie Curie)



    I told you this story because the fate of Niepce is very similar to that of Martin Fleischmann.


    But Nicephore Niepce was alone, and Fleischmann and Pons have disciples.

  • After 18 hours the output has dropped to 20mV - no surprise considering corrosion and the absence of any ambient hydrogen.

    But Argon is a non-corrosive atmosphere? Further, this data from R. K. Rout about anomalous emissions from table 1 Gas, Fogging Density : Air,0.23 ; Oxygen, 0.13 ; hydrogen, .03 ; Argon, 0. It seem corrosion is more like necessary.

  • I've started a live doc for my LEC project: https://tinyurl.com/69z7sn3e


    Here's a first surprise:

    EDX analysis showed no trace of Iron (Fe) on the cathode after plating. Tin (Sn) was seen at 5 to 8% over the colored surface area.The usual carbon from organic contaminants in the electrolyte was also seen.


    It seems possible to me that selective migration of trace tin in the copper tubing occurred during electrolysis. The electrochemical potential between copper and tin is 220 mV, so the voltage applied to the cell in the third step (when the color appeared) would be sufficient for ionic separation.



    06VJMZk08S7M-lLyDP_IsItE1kUyh_5zYOcrAM_zigM6L9t2TX1yVT9o7PI_qRlptVdv65oXiq0krh2gQF87GEnyVbCpVqrIc1lGiOv5usYLmexOBMCT_7V8PBKaOvrs27B7tspG   2E_Wo8fpXtjy2YWE2Al9ZUiVIxiDMnpVmqK1VA6FYJO2RFzvXq4esY7yRvbqVk41hpUyvAOQ9ZIbt8Ug4E395fV_XJIQvYcnNRa5totvTfaO1gHjSXoDhBWcWVOHp2U3gx76kUSu

  • The Sn comes as contaminant I guess (and I hope) but why would only C and Sn be deposited in the Cu instead of Iron? This goes a long way to show how important is to look at these things at this scale.

    Much thanks for being so thorough magicsound !!!!

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Years of lab experience and training may make this a surprise to you and many others here, but could you explain to the rest of us why it is a surprise, and what LENR significance it may have in the grand scheme of things?

  • Well, the Fe might be there but not detectable. I noticed at X10K magnification that the image appeared to be distorted by a distributed magnetic field with period of about 500 nm. Perhaps the deposited iron consists of nano-scale magnetized particles that deflect the Secondary Emission signal used by the EDX system to detect elements. More research is needed!


  • EDX analysis showed no trace of Iron (Fe) on the cathode after plating.

    Hi Alan, good to hear you started the experiments!

    I have to say that last week I also tryed to plate a small chip of Cu foil (1.5x1.5 cm) with the same procedure I used for the brass tube, but I also got an unexpected result: after many hours, no good plating was formed. Only a slighty gray very thin layer appeared. I thought I made some mistake, and I was planning to repeat the procedure, but it looks very similar to the result you got with Cu only substrate. Also, as I wrote, in my first replication I also noted some magnetic anomalies on the plated tube. This was really puzzling and quite amazing, but now it looks like it may be a meaningful detail...

    Saturday I will try again to plate the copper chip by adding some (0.1M) FeCl2 to the solution.

  • Plating Iron onto Copper can be difficult. This recipe is supposed to give results, but I have not tested it yet.


    A simple and reliable plating solution for plating hard iron onto copper soldering tips:

    1 liter Ferrous (II) Chloride 0.86 Molar (11% conc),

    240 grams Ferrous Sulphate heptahydrate FeSO4.7H20, and

    150 grams Sodium Citrate Na3C6H507.

  • I noticed at X10K magnification that the image appeared to be distorted by a distributed magnetic field with period of about 500 nm.

    The last time I used SEM was in 1980..maybe the technology has moved on since then..

    There is some info. here..https://www.nature.com/articles/srep37265

    "As mentioned in the last section, the magnetic contrast is mainly due to the deflection of secondary electrons that have escaped from the sample. For the mazy magnetic domains, such as those shown in Fig. 2a, the in-plane component (x-y component) of the stray magnetic field is maximised above the magnetic domain walls. This is confirmed by simulations of the stray magnetic field for a model specimen showing the mazy pattern in Supplementary Note 2. The complex stray magnetic field makes the angular distribution of secondary electron emissions asymmetric with reference to the optical axis and position-dependent in the x-y surface plane. For example, in a 300-nm-thick Co-Pt film shown in Supplementary Note 2, the in-plane component of the magnetic field is significant over a range of 10 μm from the sample surface, and thus the magnetic deflection is significant in this range. In contrast, because the secondary electrons are emitted from only a limited region close to the surface (e.g., <2 nm)17, the magnetic deflection of secondary electrons due to the inner magnetization is negligible (see Supplementary Note 2). Detection of the secondary electrons (deflected by the stray magnetic field) thus produces an SEM image that reveals the magnetic domain structure.

    "

    Maybe some one else has ideas... something happening with the secondary electrons

    Tin is not magnetic.. but SnO2 can be ferromagnetic..

    Unraveling the Origin of Magnetism in Mesoporous Cu-Doped SnO2 Magnetic Semiconductors
    The origin of magnetism in wide-gap semiconductors doped with non-ferromagnetic 3d transition metals still remains intriguing. In this article, insights in the…
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

    Realizing ferromagnetic ordering in SnO2 and ZnO nanostructures with Fe, Co, Ce ions
    We report the defects/vacancies that attribute to room temperature ferromagnetism in SnO2 in contrast to ZnO [Phys. Chem. Chem. Phys., 2016, 18, 5647], which…
    pubs.rsc.org



  • i don't understand why all debates to debate about the case of plating especially if we consider that a sputtering attempt should revolve the problem here.

    As it's a way less polluted by undesirable additives quickly we should know if magicsound hypothesis was relevant or not.

    No ?

  • Cydonia Yes, sputtering is a better controlled process but is also far more demanding of both skill and equipment. If I had a suitable system I would use it, but that is not the case. I will try FeCl3 solution next. But since Stevenson's report show some success, perhaps the transfer of substantial Fe to the plated surface is not relevant, rather the surface nano structure created by the plating process.

  • Here's another clue: the Fe anode has Cu deposited on it, around 3%. The area above the electrolyte is equal parts Fe and O (rusted), with no Cu present. So there appears to have been migration of a negatively charged copper ion species (Cu--) from the negative cathode to the positive anode.


    A test with the plating polarity reversed may give further insight into what is happening.


    Edit: Reversing the polarity resulted in generous deposits of copper on the Fe cathode plates. Most of it then fell off and collected on the bottom of the cell. The current had increased from 300 ma to 3 amperes after several hours. No colored deposit was visible on the copper, though the surface was deeply etched.

  • So there appears to have been migration of a negatively charged copper ion species (Cu--) from the negative cathode to the positive anode.

    Yes, this is a spontaneous reaction: in the acidic solution Cu will plate Fe even with no voltage applied. This is the same process of the classical school experiment that involves dipping iron nails in a CuSO4 solution, and getting the nails Cu plated. This reverse potential prevent the opposite process (or a higher voltage should be needed, but this will generate to much H2). A far less acidic environment and the availability of Fe++ ions in the electrolyte (added by FeCl2) should fix this. The recipe given by Alan above goes in this direction and for sure will work with reference to the Fe plating. But I'm not sure it will provide enough hydrogen loading.

    Interestingly enough, this problem is not present at all if brass is used instead of pure Cu.

  • Today I tryed to plate a chip of copper by using FeCl2 and only a few drops of HCl. This time an iron layer was formed on the Cu and it was considerably thicker than in my previous experiments (the current density was higher, also due to the small surface area). As expected there was a very little release of hydrogen at the cathode, compared to my previous experiments. I don't know if this can be a drawback, since it probably imply a reduced hydrogen codeposition or loading.

    The plated chip this time didn't feature any sign of magnetization itself, but was heavily attracted by a magnet (confirming that the layer was Fe).

    The oxidation rate was very fast when left in air, much more faster than the LEC replication. This was probably due to the greater thickness and rugosity of the layer (and the 70% humidity we have here these days... :)).

    The plated chip was too small to try to measure a voltage by setting it close to another metal.

  • Generally speaking, hydrogen deposition is increased with overpotential - excessive voltage, which probably also results in a less coherent plated surface. The way to improve things might (possibly) be to dilute the electrolyte a lot, so raising the voltage you can use.

  • Why couldn't be in this way of thinking raising directly the voltage rather than dilute the electrolyte ?

    Generally speaking, hydrogen deposition is increased with overpotential - excessive voltage, which probably also results in a less coherent plated surface. The way to improve things might (possibly) be to dilute the electrolyte a lot, so raising the voltage you can use.

  • If you raise the voltage with a strong electrolyte - in other words with a low cell resistance- the current and thus the rate of deposition of metal on the cathode increases too much, and you get very bad plating - more like powder. The 'happy point' is to have the cell resistance high enough for you to raise the voltage which favours electrolytic breakdown of the water and implantation of H at the cathode. while also obtaining a reasonable well adhered plating.

  • Thanks for explanation now at other side i saw even by this way ( because sputtering easily does) the capability to create dendrites according to some electrolytic tuning. Dendrites well involved in electrons surface clusters under IRs .

    If you raise the voltage with a strong electrolyte - in other words with a low cell resistance- the current and thus the rate of deposition of metal on the cathode increases too much, and you get very bad plating - more like powder. The 'happy point' is to have the cell resistance high enough for you to raise the voltage which favours electrolytic breakdown of the water and implantation of H at the cathode. while also obtaining a reasonable well adhered plating.