Covid-19 News

    As posted by Wyttenbach and timely at that.


    Robust T cell immunity in convalescent individuals with asymptomatic or mild COVID-19

    https://www.cell.com/action/sh…S0092-8674%2820%2931008-4

    The vaccine promoters (THH) didn't answer the trivia question. The trivia question is even more valid: agammaglobulinemia patients clear measles just fine and can have life long immunity from natural infections, but HIV patients (esp vaccinated) can die from measles silently - this speaks to the underlying paradigm problem with vaccines.


    This paper is a strike against a Covid vaccine and the vaccine paradigm for Covid. It also is interesting in the only reason this pandemic isn't a real pandemic (i.e. far worse) is because we don't have coronavirus vaccines and the natural infections gave solid cross immunity to much of the herd. Total comedy. Too bad for the gof people.


    Use the drugs if you must but get immunity folks. Get a vaccine and never develop the multilayered fighting force that works now and in the future.


    Last line of the paper:

    "...this further suggests that natural exposure or infection could prevent recurrent episodes of severe COVID-19. "

    Trumpecillin Mk II :
    Trump eyes new unproven coronavirus "cure"
    https://www.axios.com/trump-co…19-af3a-65ebad113d41.html

    Quote

    To the alarm of some government health officials, President Trump has expressed enthusiasm for the Food and Drug Administration to permit an extract from the oleander plant to be marketed as a dietary supplement or, alternatively, approved as a drug to cure COVID-19, despite lack of proof that it works.

    Driving the news: The experimental botanical extract, oleandrin, was promoted to Trump during an Oval Office meeting in July. It's embraced by Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson and MyPillow founder and CEO Mike Lindell, a big Trump backer, who recently took a financial stake in the company that develops the product.

    • Lindell told Axios that in the meeting, Trump "basically said: …'The FDA should be approving it.'"
    • The White House did not respond to requests for comment.
    Quote from RobertBryant

    Zelenko protocol for prehospital tx

    May Hasshem bless him.

    https://faculty.utrgv.edu/elef…-memo-August-protocol.pdf[attach='13597','right','false'] my

    Thanks for posting this Robert.

    Here is Zelenko's most recent video --

    Prehospital Management of Covid-19

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    After citing several successful ongoing treatments around the world, Zelenko make this closing comment --

    "So the data is there. It's only people that don't want this out - you know why there haven't been studies

    in pre-hospital Covid management - because it works, and they don't want that information out there,

    because it contradicts their agenda, propaganda and politics. "


    So this (opposite of what Navid says) is good news for vaccines.


    Indeed it looks like strong like T-cell response to COVID (such as induced by the Oxford vaccine) will last a long time and confer protection. But the proof is in the eating and we will not know until we get those Phase 3 efficacy results.


    The vaccine provoked a T cell response within 14 days of vaccination (white blood cells that can attack cells infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus), and an antibody response within 28 days (antibodies are able to neutralise the virus so that it cannot infect cells when initially contracted).

    Quote from Alan Fletcher

    Trumpecillin Mk II :
    Trump eyes new unproven coronavirus "cure"
    https://www.axios.com/trump-co…19-af3a-65ebad113d41.html


    I wish he'd stay out of medical matters


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7373128/


    The company tested Oleandrin in vitro with Vero cells (from monkey kidneys). Lung cells would have been better, so results are tenuous even by in vitro standards.


    Oleandrin is a toxic cardiac glycoside found in oleander (Nerium oleander L.). Along with conessine it is primarily responsible for the toxicity of the sap of oleander. Oleandrin has been used for many years in China and Russia for its properties as a cardiac glycoside, for both suicidal and therapeutic purposes as in treatment of cardiac insufficiency.


    The key thing interpreting these results is whether the levels at which antiviral activity happens are above or below the levels obtainable by eating this stuff at levels not giving cardiac toxicity?


    If good inhibition happens at non-toxic levels then it is well worth testing for in vivo activity - but don't have too high hopes, there are a lot of anti-virals out there. Also the link to cardiac toxicity maybe makes for issues because of variability, some will be more sensitive than others

    Interesting comments about ivermectin and inhaled steroids.. budesonide TM 8.30

    Budesonide is readily available..safe and cheap

    many asthmatics take it to control their chronic inflammation but

    giving it as a nebulised form will increase infection spread in a hospital setting..

    the patients must be using a small portable nebuliser in an isolated room at home

    Quote from Lou Pagnucco

    Here is Zelenko's most recent video --

    "

    "either you know they came in after six/seven daysout of control or for some reason the things progressed

    uh even within the first five days and and now they're getting very sick

    so i started using other drugs in addition to the zelenko protocol


    so there's an anti-parasitic drug called ivermectin and it seems to be very effective

    in reducing the viral load it's not clear why

    but it's very safe it's an old drug and

    i give it as six milligrams twice a day just for one day so total dose of 12milligrams

    and it's like an add-on to create synergy.. and i've seen pretty good results with that

    I haven't sent a patient to the hospital in in six seven weeks i would say

    and i have people calling me from all around the country


    then i also recommend now Budesonide

    it's an inhaled corticosteroid steroid, budesonide (Pulmicort)

    it's given by nebulizer um twice a dayone milligram

    and you put in the nebulizer machine and you get steroids

    right intothe alveoli in the lungs where the inflammation is"

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    So this (opposite of what Navid says) is good news for vaccines.


    Indeed it looks like strong like T-cell response to COVID (such as induced by the Oxford vaccine) will last a long time and confer protection. But the proof is in the eating and we will not know until we get those Phase 3 efficacy results.


    The vaccine provoked a T cell response within 14 days of vaccination (white blood cells that can attack cells infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus), and an antibody response within 28 days (antibodies are able to neutralise the virus so that it cannot infect cells when initially contracted).


    You are a copy-and-paste intellectual.


    Your vaccine promotion should come with a fee. Anyone who admits there is a problem with the vaccine agenda - a serious paradigm problem - and then pushes more vaccines blindly is intellectually bankrupt or paid to do it.

    Navid -


    I would be interested to hear your (non-copy-paste but properly referenced to the literature, as my comments always are) reasons for thinking that for example ChAdOx1 nCov-19 vaccine T-cell immune response is less good than COVID-19 natural infection immune response.


    or the same question for other decent modern vaccines.


    I'll fully admit that not all vaccines are effective at raising T-cell immune response, and for those that do not natural infection will often deliver more robust and broad immunity. Your argument at the moment is "natural infection delivers good T-cell immune response and therefore this is preferable to vaccines" That only works if you assume that vaccines don't give good T-cell response. My point is that many vaccines DO deliver good T-cell response. If you think about how they work that is quite reasonable. In addition natural infection is not preferable if it kills you.


    THH (your fave copy-paste paid time-waster)


    PS - my current rate of pay is $0/word, and is the most I have ever been given for posting on this forum.



    The reason you are valuable is that your mode of thought is what goes around as scientific these days. When it isn't.


    We can take it as a fact - I hope we can - that our body has a built-in complex fighting machinery - an immunological interplay with many layers of protection. Most of this is discoveries of the last 5 years even. These layers of protection allow the system to function very well but it is being disturbed by vaccines. There are time courses between when you first hit a virus your nose and when it more fully enters different parts of your body - it is a designed system. I am not going to educate you on all of the problems of vaccines on a message board but primary vaccine failure, secondary vaccine failure, and OAS are some things to learn if you wish to become a vaccine promoter when you grow up.


    So I cannot validate that some simple data-point (T-cell response - which itself has many nuances and factors) makes the vaccine effective or equivalent to natural response. When one has some ignorance in a complex system, it cannot be accompanied with confidence.


    I don't know anything about this technology, I'll be honest, so I am not going to state that it has "solved" all the problems of the last 100+ years, or not. But going on a message board and taking one talking point of theirs and saying "solved" isn't scientific.


    I have not idea how this vaccine works, so I can't begin to imagine the risks. I know for sure, that the use of a monkey adenovirus might sound "risk free", but given the past use of monkey tissues during the polio vaccine era gave us SV40 viruses - which caused a lot of cancer - and that the use of mouse tissues in vaccines gave us XMRV viruses - which is likely causing CFS. It is a dirty industry and the precautionary principle now applies to everything they do.


    Your cheerleading of this technology is techno-religion posing as science. Usually people who cheerlead get paid. I agree, this vaccine will probably do something btw, I am sure for some people, somewhere, it will help them with a tradeoff that they won't truly understand -- and it may set some people up for very bad outcomes (are they still using aluminum?) or maybe it is a vector to get people on a yearly program, or maybe - and I consider this most likely - it is to ensure that a ID system is setup where they can layer over new business models that integrate your medical data including DNA and allow for a new era of pharma to proceed....

    Navid, there seems some confusion here.


    I am not "cheerleading" any specific vaccine. I expect ChAdOx1 nCov-19 will work a bit. Note sure if well enough to be distributed. I hope so. And I doubt it will be close to 100% efficacy. Even 50% efficacy would be a big deal. I'm glad you admit to uncertainty yourself, that is what everyone will say of every new vaccine.


    But I am not using FUD to cast doubt on the utility of vaccines in general to solve epidemic problems, as you are. For example, you have not presented evidence that the natural immunity we would get from letting COVID now infect everyone would be better, in terms of protection from the next strain of COVID to emerge, than using COVID vaccines. It might be (except for the unnaceptable death toll). Or it might not be. Neither matters if we end up, as seems likely, with enough vaccines that can be adjusted as needed to meet virus challenges. You might however yourself want to champion the vaccines that raise the best possible T-cell immune response, using parts of the virus (e.g. most likely spike proteins) that are best conserved between different coronaviruses.


    In this debate you are the one with absolutes "vaccines won't work, it is bad for us when we use them" when in the past they have worked, and your specific dislike (Flu vaccine) still shows good results (reduced overall mortality) when analysed in a sophisticated way that takes into account the various secondary effects you highlight.


    I am the one with a positive but rational view, pointing out that vaccines have worked for many (but not all) previous infections and that they show every sign of working for this one too.


    I'll happily listen to your no doubt well-informed research in the intricacies of vaccine development and the immune system. When you present lack of knowledge as FUD then I will question you, and if necessary when I think you are being too black and white, or just unrealistically negative, I will deliver contrary information from the research literature or elsewhere.


    Also, if you present a personal and unevidenced view of society in which most establishment figures are evil acting from incomprehensible motivations I will point out that your view is unevidenced, and, if it is also ridiculous, i will say that.

    Quote from Navid

    that the use of mouse tissues in vaccines gave us XMRV viruses - which is likely causing CFS


    Classic anti-vaxxer propaganda. Even the woman behind this claim eventually admitted she was wrong.


    Although to be fair, she has since rowed back again on that, after discovering there's money to be made selling books and making films promoting vaccine conspiracies.


    https://www.sciencemag.org/new…cking-anthony-fauci-viral

    Quote from zorud

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/p…s/forgot-14-diseases.html


    Not all are needed and not all did disappear. Tetanus is a no brainer and all should do it. Pneumokokkus is also important. Hepatitis would be good for older people. (> 14 years) Rubella is nonsense for most - just to give some comment.

    But most important: Do not take any combination vaccines and only adjuvant free ones.


    May be there is a reason why the US is at the end will be the most affected Western country ... May be vaccination leads to a careless living style.

    Side effect of CoV-19: Australia see 6x less flu cases...

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