Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

  • Could you share references of your paper ?

    The 1988 quote was from this thermo electric conversion patent by Harold Aspden. His thoughts on orthogonical

    "Thermoelectric Energy Conversion US5288336A" Same...p

    "Thermoelectric Energy Conversion US5065085A"

    Well worth reading completely... Cited by 63 other patents. "


    "Power From Ice"…-org/reports/Es3/esr3.pdf

    From index


    Topological meta materials, nano physics and THz technologies lead us to uncharted fields of understanding. In 1988 these arts of science weren't as developed as today and, really, we've just begun to accelerate these sciences.

    A recent example of interest...

    A cool advance in thermoelectric conversion

    A quantum effect in topological semimetals demonstrated by MIT researchers could allow for the utilization of an untapped energy source.

    Steve Nadis | Department of Nuclear Science and Engineering
    Publication Date:
    December 11, 2020

    A simple diagram of thermoelectric conversion Caption: In a topological Weyl semimetal, the electronic properties are controlled by Weyl fermions, which do not possess any mass and to some extent resemble photons. When an external magnetic field is applied, these Weyl fermions are able to convert waste heat into electricity extremely effectively and efficiently. Credits: Image courtesy of researchers.

  • So to summarize, measurement of millivolt-range DC at high impedance is tricky, due to susceptibility to RF and junction voltage effects. Such problems must be carefully mitigated before any experimental measurements can be made with confidence.

    Yes, you're right. I was aware and afraid of these problems (and other that are even more subtle) way before starting my replication. So I studied a number of possible solutions. However, in the end, when I made the actual measurements I realized that they are not so critical, for a couple of reasons: 1) the LEC voltage and current (when it works) are larger than I expected; 2) the LEC output impedance is relatively low. This means that it is possible to use an instrument with 1MOhm impedance or even lower, and this dramatically reduces noise issues. If the LEC is working it will reduce even further this impedance (because it is in parallel with the meter). Moreover the voltage and current levels are in the order of 100s mV and some uA, not too difficult to spot inside the noise (they are usually greater than the noise level, so a clear offset is visible). Using a true RMS meter is worse than usign an integrating one, because the former takes into account the noise level, the latter calcels it, because it have a null average. Also filtering is effective: my instrument had the possibility to averaging over multiple measurements and to filter out the 50Hz, so it was easier. But a conventional low pass filer at the input of the meter helps. If the meter impedance is 1MOhm, a 100kOhm series followed by a parallel 1-10uF capacitor, makes a good work.

    Lastrly, measuring currents is less noisy than voltage (because the meter has a very low impedance), so it can be a good choice measuring the curent first to be sure the device is "alive".

  • Micro-X-ray Sources from Flowing Gases

    This paper is interesting for a couple of reasons:

    1. they used an X-rays detector that has a good sensitivity in the low energy region (the Amptek-123), that is the region we are interested in for the LEC. They used a CdTe detector, but according to Amptek documentation the type of sensor more suited for low energy X-rays is a simple Si PIN photodiode! They report a count every 3.6 eV for silicon photodiodes. Not bad... It is relatively easy to design a detector circuit based on a Si PIN photodiode;
    2. if the reported generation of X-Rays by a PZT transceiver is repeatable, we could emply it to "simulate" the LEC. This could be useful to compare the behaviour of a ionized gas in contact with two metals, and to experiment with different materials and metal pairs without the burden of electroplating.
  • Another way to ionise the gas would be with radio-isotopes. In some jurisdicitons these are difficult to buy, but you can finds smoke-detector modules (Americium - Alpha) on Ebay

    Metal Geiger Counter Check / Test Source - smoke detector sensor Americium HIGH | eBay
    (2) The ionization chamber fitted with a high performance and low activity of Am-241 ionization. 1) Ionization source characteristics and radiation safety…

    Image 11 - Metal Geiger Counter Check / Test Source - smoke detector sensor Americium HIGH

  • Yes, but radiation from Americium is quite high energy. If the paper is correct, we can get low energy X-Rays, similar to the ones presumed in the LEC, with just a piezo tranduscer (that has the additional vantage that can be turned on and off).

  • Admit this idea of piezo transducer remains mine, I had already mentioned it several months ago on this thread, or 10 years ago at Jean Paul ears :)

    Oui, mais le rayonnement de l'américium est d'une énergie assez élevée. Si le papier est correct, nous pouvons obtenir des rayons X à faible énergie, similaires à ceux présumés dans le LEC, avec juste un transducteur piézo (qui a l'avantage supplémentaire qui peut être activé et désactivé).

  • Yes, but radiation from Americium is quite high energy. If the paper is correct, we can get low energy X-Rays, similar to the ones presumed in the LEC, with just a piezo tranduscer (that has the additional vantage that can be turned on and off).

    I seem to recall from the documentation provided by Frank Gordon that they tried Americium to create the effect and it didn’t work. I think it’s in the patent application, will check later.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Characteristic Soft X-Rays From Arcs in Gases and Vapors:

    "Experiments with radiation from solids indicate the existence

    of soft characteristic X-radiation with no measurable general

    radiation under the best vacuum conditions. Nickel shows radia-

    tion starting at 80 volts. Experimental difficulties make the results

    obtained from solids less convincing than those from gases."

  • ™Several presentations focused on montages that

    spontaneously generate electricity

    Two different electrodes, one of which is charged with hydrogen, are separated by a low gas thickness. A weak current flows between the electrodes,

    a phenomenon of a weak amplitude without much practical application

    for the moment but which is unexplained and deserves why we're interested. The history of science is rich in

    examples in which small-scale phenomena

    have led to deep questioning of the certainties pre-existing." End quoted

    Thanks Alan Smith for this from the summary of IWAHLM-14 by Jacques Ruer. It ties in the relevance (my opinion) of the first observed thermo voltaic effect...

    It being spontaneous/naturally occurring (like LEC effect) in bi-metal layers,

    also it being of no or little utility (like LEC).

    "....unit is to generate a net output of

    electrical power, we must avoid that regenerative eddy-current syndrome in its pipework.

    We do that by laminating the pipe assembly and avoiding its closed conductive sectional forma and the laminations are provided, not because we seek to use alternating magnetic induction, as in power transformer, but rather because we want to set up the non-linear thermal gradient and avoid a mismatch of thermally-induced EMFs which would otherwise promote unwanted current circulation. The circumferential magnetic field effects are thwarted by introducing a break in the

    circuit path and tapping off the current flow by diverting into a battery... " Quote Harold Aspden - Fire From Ice - page 7

  • Worth adding that this does not appear to be galvanism or a thermo-electric effect -though it might well be temperature sensitive, nor is it photo-electric. It appears to be something 'other'. And as Tallulah Bankhead said 'I do like a bit of the other'.

  • Beyond co-deposition?

    High temperature electrochemical charging of hydrogen and its application in hydrogen embrittlement research (2006) * Ming Au ∗ Savannah River National Laboratory, Aiken, SC 29808, United States


    A high temperature electrochemical charging technique was developed for effective introduction of hydrogen or tritium into the metallic materials to a high level in a short period of time. The samples of the steels and alloys, as the cathode, were charged in an electrochemical cell consists of Pt anode and molten salt electrolyte. After 3, 6 and 12 h charging, the 304 stainless steel absorbed 25, 45 and 60 ppm of hydrogen, respectively.

    Correspondingly, the mechanical strength lost 10, 16 and 23%. The plasticity was also reduced to 20, 23 and 38%. The fractography showed the hydrogen embrittlement effect on the fractures. The electrochemical hydrogen charging technique was successfully used for introducing tritium, an

    isotope of hydrogen, into the super alloys for visualization of hydrogen trapped in the microstructure of the materials.

    It is found that the hydrogen is trapped at the grain boundaries, in inclusions and carbides. The deformed and twisted grain boundaries trap most hydrogen under stress.

  • Would it be a wasted effort to ask these researchers to put a x ray sensitive plate near their samples?

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Curbina.

    X-ray film? It's on my list.

    Sorry Alan Smith , I know you have, I was thinking aloud about asking the Chinese researchers of the paper of the steel embrittlement you just posted, I took a look and understood they got a significant load of H in the metal and thought to myself if they would be aware of and/or willing to look for x ray emission in their embrittled samples, of course the ones with H,

    not the ones with tritium,

    those would totally affect the x ray anyway.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.




    BOR YANN LIAW and PENG-LONG TAO University of Hawaii

    Hawaii Natural Energy Institute, 2540 Dole Street, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822

    BRUCE E. LIEBERT University of Hawaii

    Department of Mechanical Engineering, 2540 Dole Street, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822

    Received October 15, 1991

    Accepted for Publication May 1, 1992


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